|
| thunderdude | | Set |  | | Reg. Date | : | 24/08/2009 | | Posts | : | 26 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 20 May 2010 - 04:13 Post title : Starter button | | | Anyone experienced jumping on the bike hitting the starter and nothing happens? I'm wondering if its just a contact problem in the switch. Seems to happen when cold sporatically but seems to be happening more often now. Usually a second or third attempt it fires up. And I'm definately waiting long enough from the time I turn the key. Just wondering if it's a trend seen yet.
|
|
|
|
| mr_stang | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 23/08/2009 | | Posts | : | 271 | | Location | : | East Kurrajong, Australia |
|
| | Posted : 20 May 2010 - 06:21 Post title : Re: Starter button (Re: thunderdude) | | | Havn't seen the problem - all I have had is the let go of starter button too early problem (not a Thunderbird issue - just an impatient Stan).
Wonder if is may be related to the clutch lever switch?
Stan
|
|
|
|
| mad_angler1 | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 18/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 511 | | Location | : | United Kingdom |
|
| | Posted : 20 May 2010 - 14:10 Post title : Re: Starter button (Re: thunderdude) | | |
thunderdude wrote:
Anyone experienced jumping on the bike hitting the starter and nothing happens? I'm wondering if its just a contact problem in the switch. Seems to happen when cold sporatically but seems to be happening more often now. Usually a second or third attempt it fires up. And I'm definately waiting long enough from the time I turn the key. Just wondering if it's a trend seen yet. |
|
funny we had a Sprint ST in a few weeks ago with the very same problem, bad contacts on the starter switch, this bike would not start at all, we spent an hour chasing ghost's as the diagnostic tool was giving us some really strange fault codes, in the end we ignores the diagnostic tool and went back to basics, we were very surprised when we bypassed the switch and it fired rite up, we cleaned it up and it was fine until the new switch gear arrived as the bike was under warranty so we changed it anyway.
|
|
|
|
| daz | | Zeus | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 20 May 2010 - 14:11 Post title : Re: Starter button (Re: mr_stang) | | | That would be my guess too. Plus those things are cheap and often don't fit snugly and theres play. Could be simply removing it and sticking something in back of it where it seats in it's hole could keep it pushed in far enough to make more consistent contact.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
|
|
|
|
| thunderdude | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/08/2009 | | Posts | : | 26 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 21 May 2010 - 04:36 Post title : Re: Starter button (Re: daz) | | | I'll have them check it out at the shop when I bring it in next which will be very soon because.... the big bore kit is in! Yee haw!
|
|
|
|
| Gonzo | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 01/05/2010 | | Posts | : | 643 | | Location | : | Sydney, NSW, Australia |
|
| | Posted : 26 May 2010 - 04:29 Post title : Re: Starter button (Re: mr_stang) | | |
mr_stang wrote:
Wonder if is may be related to the clutch lever switch?
Stan |
|
OK, has anyone disabled (or shorted) that switch and still been able to run the bike fine? I think the "safety" feature this switch imposes on you is personally annoying. I always check that the neutral light is on before trying to start the bike, but having to be pulling the clutch in as well, seems rediculous.
Never had to do that on previous bikes. Is it there because Triumph don't trust their neutral light?
They already have a kickstand switch which kills the engine if it is down, and not in neutral - or am I mistaken? If not, then what exactly is their thinking with the clutch switch?
Anyway, the main quesiton is: Has anyone tried, or does anyone think, that if I short that switch so that it is reading the clutch is ALWAYS pulled in, would the bike still run OK, or would it screw around the ECU?
Gonzo
| --
Red XIII
Mods: locking gas cap; ISO-Wings for passenger; engine guards; dresser bars; Arlen Ness LED licence plate holder, rego tube and coloured number plate; long TORs; Pilot highway pegs w/ Magnum clamps; windshield; lower deflectors (customised); ISO grips; HD switch-block; Hardstreet Slimbags (colour matched); Corbin dual tour seat; Luggage rack & bag.
Todo: Various chroming of hand-made parts, Convex mirrors
Wishlist: Mini-ape handlebars, Hard clearcoat over tank
|
|
|
|
| Widawg | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 17/05/2010 | | Posts | : | 27 | | Location | : | SW High Desert / Mountains, United States |
|
| | Posted : 26 May 2010 - 04:39 Post title : Re: Starter button (Re: Gonzo) | | | One thing to keep in mind that I've noticed is that if the kill switch is flipped, even the neutral light won't come on even when it's in neutral. Make sure you haven't inadvertently left this switch flipped. 
| Widawg
If you have to ask you wouldn't like my answer!
|
|
|
|
| zolti | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 23/03/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,127 | | Location | : | newcastle , United Kingdom |
|
| | Posted : 26 May 2010 - 19:32 Post title : Re: Starter button (Re: Widawg) | | | i think its a safety directive Gonzo, prob from brussels, a lass at work just picked up a new bm car and she has to engage the clutch before it starts!!
therefore i dont think its a triumph thing but a compliance issue.
|
|
|
|
| daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 26 May 2010 - 21:07 Post title : Re: Starter button (Re: Gonzo) | | | yeah, but you know how this goes....you remember to do that 1000 times in a row. But then you space out and forget the 1001st time and the bike shoots forward when you hit the starter and you're out several thousand bucks for a ton of dented and scraped parts. I for one like this type of safety feature. How hard is it to pull the clutch in? you do it hundreds or even 1000's of times every time you ride, so whats one more time !
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
|
|
|
|
| Gonzo | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 01/05/2010 | | Posts | : | 643 | | Location | : | Sydney, NSW, Australia |
|
| | Posted : 26 May 2010 - 21:37 Post title : Re: Starter button (Re: daz) | | |
daz wrote:
yeah, but you know how this goes....you remember to do that 1000 times in a row. But then you space out and forget ... so whats one more time ! |
|
The only time it bothers me is when I'm not yet sitting on the bike, but want to start it to warm it up. I walk up to it on the key side, insert key, flip on the kill switch, go to start it... Damn it... Walk around to the other side, hold in the clutch, reach over to the start button... CRAP! Swear at myself for not having my jacket buckle done up and it hits the tank... Straighten up, tuck in buckle, swear at Triumph for having such a stupid switch that I have never had on other bikes... Reach over, start bike, let go of damn clutch.
Do I want to go through this a thousand times before I disable the switch? 
So... Anyone disabled that switch or know if it is connected to the ECU in any way? I am thinking it is probably not - only connected to the starter circuit.
Anyone have a circuit diagram they could check for me? Or where do I find one?
Gonzo
| --
Red XIII
Mods: locking gas cap; ISO-Wings for passenger; engine guards; dresser bars; Arlen Ness LED licence plate holder, rego tube and coloured number plate; long TORs; Pilot highway pegs w/ Magnum clamps; windshield; lower deflectors (customised); ISO grips; HD switch-block; Hardstreet Slimbags (colour matched); Corbin dual tour seat; Luggage rack & bag.
Todo: Various chroming of hand-made parts, Convex mirrors
Wishlist: Mini-ape handlebars, Hard clearcoat over tank
|
|
|
|
| mat1600 | | Thunderbird | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 06/03/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,596 | | Location | : | Bridlington, Democratic Independant State of Yorkshire, United Kingdom |
|
| | Posted : 27 May 2010 - 08:17 Post title : Re: Starter button (Re: Gonzo) | | | The bike starts in gear with the clutch in. So am I right in thinking if something malfunctions with the stand switch and you have disconnected the clutch then shit will happen if you press the starter. very remote chance of all that happening but thats why safety stuff is put on.
The other day I had my bike on tick over and on the stand, I reached with my foot to shift something stuck on the engine casing , slipped and accidently knocked the gear shift (I was off the bike) the bike lurched forward and cut out just as it teetered on the stand at TDC.  Could have been bad Thankfully the safety features kicked in.
| My first natural instinct is to breathe. My second is to evade tax's.
|
|
|
|
| Gonzo | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 01/05/2010 | | Posts | : | 643 | | Location | : | Sydney, NSW, Australia |
|
| | Posted : 27 May 2010 - 22:43 Post title : Re: Starter button (Re: mat1600) | | |
mat1600 wrote:
The bike starts in gear with the clutch in.
|
|
Only if the kickstand is up.
mat1600 wrote:
So am I right in thinking if something malfunctions with the stand switch and you have disconnected the clutch then shit will happen if you press the starter. very remote chance of all that happening but thats why safety stuff is put on.
|
|
Well, if we start thinking that everything is going to malfunction, then we wouldn't be riding our bikes, right? It's all a matter of calculated risks. I never had a clutch switch on three previous bike and never had a problem. And neither does EVERY Harley out there, and they are very expensive to fix. So, I think my odds are pretty good.
mat1600 wrote:
The other day I had my bike on tick over and on the stand, I reached with my foot to shift something stuck on the engine casing , slipped and accidently knocked the gear shift (I was off the bike) the bike lurched forward and cut out just as it teetered on the stand at TDC. Could have been bad Thankfully the safety features kicked in. |
|
And that's why I would not disable the kickstand switch. :)
But still no replies as to what the switch is connected to? I thought people here had one of those cheap service manuals? Anyone?
Gonzo
| --
Red XIII
Mods: locking gas cap; ISO-Wings for passenger; engine guards; dresser bars; Arlen Ness LED licence plate holder, rego tube and coloured number plate; long TORs; Pilot highway pegs w/ Magnum clamps; windshield; lower deflectors (customised); ISO grips; HD switch-block; Hardstreet Slimbags (colour matched); Corbin dual tour seat; Luggage rack & bag.
Todo: Various chroming of hand-made parts, Convex mirrors
Wishlist: Mini-ape handlebars, Hard clearcoat over tank
|
|
|
|
| mat1600 | | Thunderbird | | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/03/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,596 | | Location | : | Bridlington, Democratic Independant State of Yorkshire, United Kingdom |
|
| | Posted : 28 May 2010 - 08:02 Post title : Re: Starter button (Re: Gonzo) | | | There is no reason that switch would be a problem shorted out for good. The bike runs fine when using the clutch so that switch is in and out all the time. Is the switch at the bar end or engine end.
| My first natural instinct is to breathe. My second is to evade tax's.
|
|
|
|
| Gonzo | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 01/05/2010 | | Posts | : | 643 | | Location | : | Sydney, NSW, Australia |
|
| | Posted : 29 May 2010 - 14:30 Post title : Re: Starter button (Re: mat1600) | | |
mat1600 wrote:
There is no reason that switch would be a problem shorted out for good. The bike runs fine when using the clutch so that switch is in and out all the time. Is the switch at the bar end or engine end. |
|
Yeah, that's what I figured.
The switch is actually at the lever end - you can see the cable splitting from the main cable harness going to the left switch block.
I'll give it a try and let you know the results. :)
Cheers,
Gonzo
| --
Red XIII
Mods: locking gas cap; ISO-Wings for passenger; engine guards; dresser bars; Arlen Ness LED licence plate holder, rego tube and coloured number plate; long TORs; Pilot highway pegs w/ Magnum clamps; windshield; lower deflectors (customised); ISO grips; HD switch-block; Hardstreet Slimbags (colour matched); Corbin dual tour seat; Luggage rack & bag.
Todo: Various chroming of hand-made parts, Convex mirrors
Wishlist: Mini-ape handlebars, Hard clearcoat over tank
|
|
|
|
| Gonzo | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 01/05/2010 | | Posts | : | 643 | | Location | : | Sydney, NSW, Australia |
|
| | Posted : 03 Jun 2010 - 13:22 Post title : Re: Starter button (Re: mat1600) | | | Well pulling the switch out of the clutch handlebar housing was really very easy. There is a little plastic tab you just put a flatblade screwdriver to and with a bit of a wiggle the switch comes out. Having it popped out has the same effect as the clutch being pulled in.
And the result works exactly as predicted - While in neutral, bike can start without holding the clutch in, while still not allowing to start if the bike is on the sidestand and in gear.
Now all I have to do is trace the wires back to the electrical block, cut them, solder the two contacts together to mimic the normally Closed switch.
Cheers,
Gonzo
| --
Red XIII
Mods: locking gas cap; ISO-Wings for passenger; engine guards; dresser bars; Arlen Ness LED licence plate holder, rego tube and coloured number plate; long TORs; Pilot highway pegs w/ Magnum clamps; windshield; lower deflectors (customised); ISO grips; HD switch-block; Hardstreet Slimbags (colour matched); Corbin dual tour seat; Luggage rack & bag.
Todo: Various chroming of hand-made parts, Convex mirrors
Wishlist: Mini-ape handlebars, Hard clearcoat over tank
|
|
|
|
| mat1600 | | Thunderbird | | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/03/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,596 | | Location | : | Bridlington, Democratic Independant State of Yorkshire, United Kingdom |
|
| | Posted : 03 Jun 2010 - 16:54 Post title : Re: Starter button (Re: Gonzo) | | | As an extra security measure you could use that and put a hidden switch in line. For when you leave it in a strange place. Even if someone did get round the ignition they would still have to find the switch. just a thought.
Hope your happy now
| My first natural instinct is to breathe. My second is to evade tax's.
|
|
|
|
| Gonzo | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 01/05/2010 | | Posts | : | 643 | | Location | : | Sydney, NSW, Australia |
|
| | Posted : 08 Jun 2010 - 13:12 Post title : Re: Starter button (Re: mat1600) | | |
mat1600 wrote:
As an extra security measure you could use that and put a hidden switch in line. For when you leave it in a strange place. Even if someone did get round the ignition they would still have to find the switch. just a thought.
|
|
Oooh... You are a clever cookie. Free immobiliser! :)
BTW, working a treat. :)
Cheers,
Gonzo
| --
Red XIII
Mods: locking gas cap; ISO-Wings for passenger; engine guards; dresser bars; Arlen Ness LED licence plate holder, rego tube and coloured number plate; long TORs; Pilot highway pegs w/ Magnum clamps; windshield; lower deflectors (customised); ISO grips; HD switch-block; Hardstreet Slimbags (colour matched); Corbin dual tour seat; Luggage rack & bag.
Todo: Various chroming of hand-made parts, Convex mirrors
Wishlist: Mini-ape handlebars, Hard clearcoat over tank
|
|
|
|
| Lozz | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 17/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 8 | | Location | : | Perth, WA, Australia |
|
| | Posted : 18 Jul 2010 - 19:27 Post title : Re: Starter button (Re: thunderdude) | | | Thunderdude, In answer to your original question I've had the same thing happen. It's usually when I try to start it too quickly after pulling the clutch lever in. It seems to take a few seconds to get a permisive from the clutch switch to the starter. My previously owned BMW was the same. This can be a pain in the arse if you are in a hurry e.g stalled at the lights.
| Lozz West Australia
| | Post edited by Lozz on 18 Jul 2010 - 19:41 |
|
|
|
| thunderdude | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/08/2009 | | Posts | : | 26 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 20 Jul 2010 - 06:19 Post title : Re: Starter button (Re: Lozz) | | | I actually found I could only recreate when I had the handlebars turned all the way to the right. Now I just never have it in that position when I fire it up and it hasn't happened since.
|
|
|
|
| Lozz | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 17/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 8 | | Location | : | Perth, WA, Australia |
|
| | Posted : 20 Jul 2010 - 19:54 Post title : Re: Starter button (Re: thunderdude) | | | Sounds like it could be a wiring issue in your case
| Lozz West Australia
|
|
|
|
| Gonzo | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 01/05/2010 | | Posts | : | 643 | | Location | : | Sydney, NSW, Australia |
|
| | Posted : 11 Aug 2010 - 12:51 Post title : Re: Starter button (Re: Gonzo) | | |
Gonzo wrote:
Well pulling the switch out of the clutch handlebar housing was really very easy. There is a little plastic tab you just put a flatblade screwdriver to and with a bit of a wiggle the switch comes out. Having it popped out has the same effect as the clutch being pulled in.
And the result works exactly as predicted - While in neutral, bike can start without holding the clutch in, while still not allowing to start if the bike is on the sidestand and in gear.
Now all I have to do is trace the wires back to the electrical block, cut them, solder the two contacts together to mimic the normally Closed switch.
Cheers,
Gonzo |
|
Just a note to all that you SHOULD NOT do this little trick.
For some reason, the clutch switch is indeed connected to the ECU, and for some reason, if the clutch is "held in" all the time, the fuel gauge stops working correctly. 
I paid $110 to find that out. 
Gonzo
| --
Red XIII
Mods: locking gas cap; ISO-Wings for passenger; engine guards; dresser bars; Arlen Ness LED licence plate holder, rego tube and coloured number plate; long TORs; Pilot highway pegs w/ Magnum clamps; windshield; lower deflectors (customised); ISO grips; HD switch-block; Hardstreet Slimbags (colour matched); Corbin dual tour seat; Luggage rack & bag.
Todo: Various chroming of hand-made parts, Convex mirrors
Wishlist: Mini-ape handlebars, Hard clearcoat over tank
|
|
|
|
| Birdy68 | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 16/07/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,352 | | Location | : | Bad Zurzach, Aargau, Switzerland |
|
| | Posted : 11 Aug 2010 - 13:02 Post title : Re: Starter button (Re: Gonzo) | | |
Gonzo wrote:
Just a note to all that you SHOULD NOT do this little trick.
For some reason, the clutch switch is indeed connected to the ECU, and for some reason, if the clutch is "held in" all the time, the fuel gauge stops working correctly...
Gonzo |
|
Well it certainly has some linked information to the ECU - I CAN confirm that!
The reason I know: I have installed one of those DS Gear Indicators that plugs into the diagnosis plug that goes directly to the ECU and reads the information it needs to work out the gear position.
NOW THEN....
While you're just sat there - in neutral, engine running AND CLUTCH is OUT (not pulled in), the display shows '0'.
As soon as you pull the clutch IN, the display changes to '-'.
The same when I'm riding and gearing down, I can see that on those occasions where I have the clutch held in and just rolling in a gear, the display will show '-'! As soon as I let the clutch out it pukes up and shows where I was.
So - yep, I'd say the clutch switch does give the ECU some solid information.
Just my 2p worth!
| Birdy68
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
Leave the pork pies for now - get the sausage rolls while they're hot!
 -x-  -x- 
more info at Fuelly.com
|
|
|
|
| Wells | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 19/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 13 Aug 2010 - 20:40 Post title : Re: Starter button (Re: Birdy68) | | | Oh, the clutch definitely talks to the ECU. If you have ever hooked your bike up to your computer and used TuneECU on it, you get a clutch position indication in the software, so the ECU knows when the clutch is in or out.
I am sure that if I pulled out the electrical drawings of the bike from the repair manual, that would also show me some sort of connection into the ECU.
|
|
|