|  | Topic : Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 |  |
| | | DizzE | | Thor |  |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 12 Nov 2012 - 18:52 Post title : Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 | | | Having more or less finished with the feasibility review, it's time to move to a working prototype.
And the first thread was getting too long for me to easily reference.
Had another Light Bulb moment.  I really want to make this a one piece mounting. The counter torques
make that doable with a fairly light weight bracket. If you can get one of the mounts to reinforce the other, well
then, Bob has me for his nephew. 
I can use a small part of the beefy U-channel to make the other mount. But, this time, the heavy part, will be the
foot and the face will be the somewhat less thick, bottom of the channel. This will mount vertically, with 2 bolts,
on the other bracket, so the faces are about 20 - 30 mm apart.
That heavy foot will brace the mount in anti--torque and stiffen it in the correct place for harmonic dampening, as well.
And hanging from the same mount the torques can work against each other instead of only against the mounting points.
Talked to the Rotrex guy this morning to ask about the static torque. It is this range, I'm sure we are all familiar with.
Not so tight it can't be turned by hand, but not so loose. You can not give it a spin, even a 1/4 turn, by hand.
Also, just thinking about this next phase, do we really need to seal the airbox when the blower comes on? Yes, for
sure, IF we are going for serious boost above 10 psi. But the 5 -7 psi range maybe we are just re- filling the "manifold
vacuum?"
Ideally we could boost to a pressure where the reverse flow under the seat is just a fat leak.  Maybe I'm
dreaming?
But, the engine is demanding air at a certain velocity to fill the cylinders, at very low rpm. It is one of the main ways
it produces the low rev torque. Narrow, 38 mm throttle bodies, pressure sharing plenum, etc. But, after we get to 3500 rpm
where the C-15 is really boosting, we have the velocity, we just need more O2 molecules per cylinder to burn more fuel.
More CFM to make up for the undersized throttle bodies, that provided the early intake velocity. In other words, we never
have to pressurize the aibox, at this point we are providing much extra CFM of air to the cylinders.    
Any thoughts? Ideas are always welcome. Helps us think. 
| | Post edited by DizzE on 13 Nov 2012 - 01:29 |
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 13 Nov 2012 - 23:25 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: DizzE) | | |
Now simply attach part A to part B.
Dip stick? Check.
Good clearance.
Attach Motor mount D to C-15 bracket, C. Then attach Motor E, to mount D. 
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| | | AlainD | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 16/12/2010 | | Posts | : | 164 | | Location | : | Nice, France |
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| | Posted : 15 Nov 2012 - 16:35 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: DizzE) | | | Control ready to be programmed
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 15 Nov 2012 - 16:46 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: AlainD) | |
| | | CornerBanger | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 07/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 1,113 | | Location | : | Charleston, SC, United States |
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| | Posted : 15 Nov 2012 - 17:44 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: DizzE) | | |
DizzE wrote:
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Watching closely.
| There are those who own and there are those who ride! 
2010 Thunderbird
2007 Kawi KX250F
2010 Kawi KX85 (My boy's ride)
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| | | zolti | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 23/03/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,127 | | Location | : | newcastle , United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 15 Nov 2012 - 19:56 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: DizzE) | | |
DizzE wrote:
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you need to rename your bike "enterprise" for it goeth where no man has gone before.
true pioneering
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| | | Rev | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 02/02/2011 | | Posts | : | 266 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 15 Nov 2012 - 21:54 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: DizzE) | | |
DizzE wrote:
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How many RPMs is the motor capable of? Are you thinking you're going to gear it up and spin it at 80k like an exhaust driven turbo?
| "I know just what I'm gonna do..... I'm gonna ride on" ~ Bon Scott
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 15 Nov 2012 - 23:02 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: Rev) | | | We hit a break through when the new motor came out. That means we can get 760 revs per volt, instead of only 150.
That puts us, with 12 v, at the 8000 rpm range. with plenty of power.
The secondary of the planetary drive is going to run in the 80,000 range and that puts the primary shaft at 8000 rpm.
Direct Drive, Baby!!
It is a completely different type of direct drive than a turbo, always spinning in the exhaust gas stream. The gearing is
not even gears. In it's internal ratio. It is skateboard-like wheels, urethane, motivating the outer urethane track by friction.
It takes a special sauce to lubricate the system without being too slick under pressure. There is also an oil cooler radiator
to install, as well as a small reservoir, for the fluid.
So, that is the beauty of it. No engine drive, no gears or belts. But, yes, for the C-15, the max is 100,000 rpm but
the CFM sweet spot is 80K.
Really it is all about the programming. We need engine rpm signal from the alternator. So, the power board has to
quickly bring the boost up at a certain rpm that we will have to work out on the dyno.
But, we can't do that without the power board programing.
| | Post edited by DizzE on 16 Nov 2012 - 21:59 |
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 15 Nov 2012 - 23:04 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: zolti) | | |
zolti wrote:
DizzE wrote:
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you need to rename your bike "enterprise" for it goeth where no man has gone before.
true pioneering |
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Mr. Bikey! You will, henceforth be the Enterprise. Engage. 
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| | | Rev | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 02/02/2011 | | Posts | : | 266 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 16 Nov 2012 - 15:22 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: DizzE) | | |
DizzE wrote:
We hit a break through when the new motor came out. That means we can get 760 revs per volt, instead of only 150.
That puts us, with 12 v, at the 8000 rpm range. with plenty of power.
The secondary of the planetary drive is going to run in the 80,000 range and that puts the primary shaft at 8000 rpm.
Direct Drive, Baby!!
It is a completely different type of direct drive than a turbo, always spinning in the exhaust gas stream. The gearing is
not even gears. In is internal ratio. It is skateboard wheels, urethane, motivating the outer urethane track by friction.
It takes a special sauce to lubricate without being too slick under pressure.
So, that is the beauty of it. No engine drive, no gears or belts. But, yes, for the C-15, the max is 100,000 rpm but
the CFM sweet spot is 80K.
Really it is all about the programming. It takes engine rpm signal from the alternator. So, the power board has to
quickly bring the boost up at a certain rpm that we will have to work out on the dyno.
But, we can't do that without the power board programing. |
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Does the motor maintain it's torque at lower voltages, or this going to be kind of an all or nothing setup?
If the variable motor maintains it's torque to some degree at lower voltages, would it be possible to relate the amount of boost to the position of the throttle in some manner, or are you basing it solely on the rpms of the engine?
| "I know just what I'm gonna do..... I'm gonna ride on" ~ Bon Scott
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 16 Nov 2012 - 16:15 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: Rev) | | | Good questions!
Once we have the rpm signal, then, in the fuel mapping exercise on the dyno, we can relate rpm to throttle position and the fuel requirement.
Very early days for the details, but that's the concept.
Marc Salvisberg, who has done my tunes, so far, sees no problem with mapping this. We probably won't need MAP sensor upgrade or
an injector size upgrade.
We may need to tap the TP sensor directly for an analog voltage, to decode the throttle position. That is what the CAN bus does.
Or, if Alain has some CANbus coding ability, then we can get the signals from that.
The start torque has to be overcome first. And then smoothly bring the blower up into throttle position control.
Maybe Alain can say more about this. We still need the algorithm and signaling that tells the motor not to run at 3500 in cruise
at 15% throttle, but WILL run when the TP is at 40%, let's say, for back of the napkin, guess work/brainstorm.
That is the basic Use Case. When we get that, then it should work in the other Use Cases. That is, to run the blower any time
we go to 40% TP. (raw guess)
The last thing we need to work, for this part, is smoothness for safety. On Cosmo's project, with the HD, the guy wanted a very aggressive
pulley ratio.
He ended up wreaking it, almost immediately.
This is another clear advantage over belt driven, besides the reduced complexity. Alain can work in smoothness and bring up the power
gently.
Marc's general racing concept, for any bike, is you connect the back wheel torque to your right wrist. What else? That's it.
It's all in the wrist. We do not want the boost to bash in with instant, 30 more hp as we are blasting out of a turn. 
We can much more easily control this with electronics, than with a fixed pulley ratio.
| | Post edited by DizzE on 16 Nov 2012 - 21:51 |
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| | | mat1600 | | Thunderbird | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 06/03/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,596 | | Location | : | Bridlington, Democratic Independant State of Yorkshire, United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 16 Nov 2012 - 20:27 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: DizzE) | | | Seems like you have done your homework. Sounding good upto now.
You know if you want some bits making up, machineing etc, give me a call.
| My first natural instinct is to breathe. My second is to evade tax's.
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 16 Nov 2012 - 21:54 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: mat1600) | | |
Thanks for that, my fine Bird friend.
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| | | AlainD | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/12/2010 | | Posts | : | 164 | | Location | : | Nice, France |
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| | Posted : 21 Nov 2012 - 19:48 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: DizzE) | | | Be4 Thanksgiving update:
* 8kW 100kv Motor spinning smoothly
* Will post tomorrow a video
* Will receive the 760kv within few days
* Will have to rework a little the PCB before sending oversea.
| | Post edited by AlainD on 21 Nov 2012 - 19:48 |
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| | | AlainD | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/12/2010 | | Posts | : | 164 | | Location | : | Nice, France |
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| | Posted : 23 Nov 2012 - 16:52 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: AlainD) | | |
Spinning a 9800W motor (no load)
The 760 kV is for next week
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 24 Nov 2012 - 14:33 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: AlainD) | | | the board....It's.....ALIVE!
And I have he 760 kv motor in hand, it takes a 4800W max. So, plenty of overhead there, I think. Start torque on the electric motor, just againt
the magnets is very firm, but doable by hand on the 8mm shaft, but you certainly could not spin it even one notch.
I might have to adjust the main bracket down a mm or so. Or make a new one..we will see. I hope get the motor mount on the motor today.
Then I can check the centerline.
It is possible, it is in alignment. I will have to figure a way to check. The motor shaft has to make the other bracket's center hole.
Not the other way around. The shaft has a threaded hole. Make a center point in the shaft and mark it ,I guess.
| | Post edited by DizzE on 24 Nov 2012 - 20:40 |
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| | | edbob | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 04/04/2012 | | Posts | : | 931 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 25 Nov 2012 - 01:21 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: DizzE) | | | You realize that if you can pull this off, the noise this thing will make will be unlike anything ever heard by man. You'll have motor whine, 80,000 rpm turbo whine, and the open piped Thunderbird exhaust. I'm thinking Return of the Jedi speeder bike, mixed with dragon unleashed from hell. Very interesting.
| "You will ride eternal shiny and chrome"
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 25 Nov 2012 - 02:38 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: DizzE) | | |
It worked out well. I'll attach it to the bike and then I need a C-15 for Christmas.
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 25 Nov 2012 - 02:46 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: edbob) | | |
edbob wrote:
You realize that if you can pull this off, the noise this thing will make will be unlike anything ever heard by man. You'll have motor whine, 80,000 rpm turbo whine, and the open piped Thunderbird exhaust. I'm thinking Return of the Jedi speeder bike, mixed with dragon unleashed from hell. Very interesting. |
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The sound of it will be something, I agree. I think you've expressed it well. Also, I'm hoping for a hint of, well, pleasingly powerful, somewhere in there. It should be a Pavlovian thing, right?
They are said to hiss at idle speed when engine driven. Who knows what may happen when it honks up to 8000???
What did you say????
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 26 Nov 2012 - 03:53 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: DizzE) | | | A three step process
| | Post edited by DizzE on 26 Nov 2012 - 03:58 |
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| | | AlainD | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/12/2010 | | Posts | : | 164 | | Location | : | Nice, France |
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| | Posted : 26 Nov 2012 - 14:14 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: DizzE) | | | Looks gr8
It will do someting
Going in little details that might become challenges :
The Controller Box is going to be 80mm x 86mm x 210 mm and has to be as close as possible from the Motor that will be attached using 3 x M5 things
like in the video.
2xM5 bolts to connect the battery (without a reverse polarity protection beside an inline fuse)
The controller is in fact 2 boards, one is where the hight currents will fly, the other is where the software is located as well as the UI
The bad news is that I made few mistakes on those boards and that will add another 10 days delay
But I can go ahead with the "corrected boards"
The can control is also a challenge, not in the hardware but will take some time to get the correct wording between ECU and the system.
It is something that I know the "how to's" but might take some time to implement.
To control the speed, at first, you'll have several acesses : Voltage input , serial port input, Wifi access.
There is a big part of the tuning that will be software and to avoid multiple international flights there will be a need to get you a programming tool as I don't know how to do this kind of thing, working straight away in Version 1.0.
Multiple iterations are expected.
More to come when 760kV will be fired
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 26 Nov 2012 - 14:46 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: AlainD) | | |
Le Diable est dans le detail. I agree. There is a path ahead. Much to do. Much to go wrong or forget to do. A regular project.
Slow and steady, we can get there. Or we can know why not.
The motor wires are long enough to get back behind the ignition key for their gold connectors
The power board set can fit against he battery box, right side. There are 2 thread inserts there to mount a bracket.
The wires from the Power Board to motor connectors will be the approx. 150mm. Is that OK? I think that will be cooler spot to run the board
A lot of air moves by next to the belt.
And yes, we will have many software versions. We can work much by email.
That is how Alain Fontaine worked with me for TuneECU. So, I will need a download tool for your EEPROMS. I test, and send you results.
There is a lot we have to test and get under control before I do the first dyno. It may take 2 -3 trips to dyno.
This may take 1 year. A real project.
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 27 Nov 2012 - 16:33 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: DizzE) | | | Finally, I got a distributor of the C-15 to take some photos for me....not just promise to.
The main connector is 1/2 inch thread and a big bolt. A pulley adapter is standard, not an extra cost, as I was
lead to believe.
My idea so far, is to get another of these adapters and adapt that to the 8mm motor shaft. Then I can
bolt the two pulley adapters to each other. I think a pad of elastic matting material, of some kind, between the
2 adapters will make the start up and running alignment problems a bit easier to solve.
And my wife tracked down the Rotrex Technical Handbook for very detailed specs.
The Green part on the right is the Adapter.
| | Post edited by DizzE on 27 Nov 2012 - 16:39 |
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 29 Nov 2012 - 04:20 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: DizzE) | | | Ordered the C-15-60. $2050 delivered. Will still need oil cooler radiator.
And I traced down the crank sensor and the throttle position sensor. Both are available at socket plugs before the main harness into
the ECU.
It occurs to me, a small embedded processor like Arduino can take the two raw signals and output motor control PWM.
I already have everything from another project. Less than $100.
- Arduino UNO runs on 5 v
- Code to run 32 kHz clock
- PWM Output code for a robot motor
- 5 vdc is present on the bike for the ECU, already
So, Alain, are you familiar with Arduino? I think we can skip radio control. Maybe we can get the throttle position and crank rpm
the same way the ECU gets it. Analog voltage. Do our processing in Ardunio.
It is pretty simple stuff and the code is free. Here is the PWM setup for the clock. Power in 256 steps.
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int pinA = 3; // pin 3 is PWM output controlled by Timer2
// connect pinA to power board
void setup(){
//__________________________________TIMER2_for_Motor_PWM_________________________________
// set TIMER2 for PWM 32 Hz
//
// clear all prescaler bits in TCCR2B = the last 3 Bits
// leave other bits as set by arduino init() in wiring.c
byte mask = B11111000;
TCCR2B &= mask; // TCCR2B is now xxxxx000
//
// set CS22:20 in TCCR2B see p 156 of datasheet
TCCR2B |= (0||CS22) | (0||CS21) | (1||CS20); // same as TCCR2B |= B00000001; TCCR2B is now xxxxx001
//__pinmode
pinMode(pinA,OUTPUT);
//
analogWrite(pinA,128); // 50% Duty
}
void loop(){
}
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| | Post edited by DizzE on 29 Nov 2012 - 04:22 |
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| | | AlainD | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/12/2010 | | Posts | : | 164 | | Location | : | Nice, France |
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| | Posted : 29 Nov 2012 - 07:46 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: DizzE) | | | For the sensing point, that is easing the process.
For the Arduino, it is an option, but the STM32 scheme (based on a cortex M3 like arduino) I use is having a lot more capabilities and is controlling alll the sequencing of the BLDC motor.
It is not only doing a PWM, just like if it was a DC motor, it is doing all the job of a 3 phase sensorless drive.
This portion of the code is the tricky part, but as seen on the video is already running
It could probably work with an arduino, with some adaptations but will not save time/money
What I am interrested in is :
Throttle position sensor & cranck shaft sensor:
do you have any electrical description?
What I will do is the following :
My board is controlling the speed/ power 7 times/ revolution and is probably already having the inputs for those 2 sensors
When every thing will be rotating correctly at the desired power
I will put some accessible and non volatile parameters allowing the following equation to be experimentally tuned
Motor speed = f(throttle Position, crank speed)
The way to access parameters will be either using a serial link or the WIfi access that is already embedded and using an opePicus
When we are talking hundreds of Amps, it is another story in rooting boards and thermal things.
to give you an idea: to be efficient, such a drive will switch Power Mosfets in couple of nano seconds
Spikes generated on a 1" trace can easily exceed 10v and kill every component if badly rooted.
And that is the reason I need to reroot the power board before sending over, as it currently dies at 65 Amps on motor
But on the positive side, software is a matter of hours to be completed.
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 29 Nov 2012 - 16:19 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: AlainD) | | | OK. I was just in a mental mode here after I ordered the blower. So, I decided to trace down electrical signals.
Then I really thought about what the software has to do. Then I wondered what you had in mind.
I looked at the voltage regulator input but that is in the 11 - 15 volt range. Be nice to get the low volt signals.
The crank position sensor is reading a toothed wheel on the alternator shaft. It used for determining the crank angle
for firing the spark advance. It is two wires, so I imagine a pulse is counted as RPM. Or perhaps a pulse for each tooth
on the wheel.
I'll need to measure it.
The throttle position is a variable voltage signal from the throttle plate movement. It begins at .62 v - 5v maybe. I'll check the range.
Also, I'll check into the STM32 scheme and opePicus and all of the tool path items, as you mention them.
What do you use for an IDE? By serial access, do up mean A/D converted or will you take analog signal direct?
You are quite right. I forgot about Sensorless 3 Phase, and forgot about very high amperage. I was working 30 A, reversible
brushed DC motors. Not the same, at all.
What other details do we need about the sensors?
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| | | AlainD | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/12/2010 | | Posts | : | 164 | | Location | : | Nice, France |
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| | Posted : 29 Nov 2012 - 16:44 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: DizzE) | | | The IDE I use is IAR embedded workbench. not cheap at all (not to say the most expensive) but probably a 1 month trial could be available.
When I mentioned serial access it was to give you a mean to change/tune a parameter not to have to recompile software.
If I uses the openPicus, then an Iphone will be enough.
That is only for the devlopment phase
If the equation of the system is for example Motor speed = K1 x Throttle + K2 x RPM's then when you'll bring the bike to the dyno
bring your Iphone if openpicus is embeded or a labtop with a serial link and you will be allowed to modify K1 & K2 on the fly.
K1 and K2 will be saved on a non volatile memory so no problem
I will dedidacte 2 analog channels for the sensing with one that could be used as a standard I/O
Do not worry about power supplies, the only thing needed is a battery that can range from 9V up to 48V.
Regarding sensor adaptation the board is looking for a 0->3,3V full scale A/D channels (internally clamped)
If throttle is analog and ranging from 0.62 up to 5v a simple R divider will do it
For the cranck shaft my gess is that it will be a 5V ttl or open collector thing giving square waves.
Same thing or a simple resistor will do it
On the safe side I'll put those 2 channels externally parametrable like that if the throttle needs some calibration then...... same thing than K1 & K2 before.
As it is good in dev mode to visualize what is going on, there will be some data's available for some kind of realtime monitoring.
sounds like a plan
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 29 Nov 2012 - 21:17 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: AlainD) | | | Very Good! I have some free IDE, maybe there is a plugin for Eclispe? No matter.
Power supply is no problem. I have a 24v from the other project.
The control algorithm might be something like this.
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#include motorStart.h
#include rpmControl.h
CASE throttleP | 35%
DO NOTHING
CASE throttleP > 35% and rpm | 2000
DO NOTHING
CASE throttleP | 35% and rpm > 2000
DO NOTHING ( pilot error, re-engage clutch)
CASE throttleP > 35% and rpm > 2000
motorStart
set motorSpeed (rpm x rotrexFactor)
rpmControl
---------------------------------------------
Perhaps then, there are 3 parameters that can be tweeked with my iPhone at the dyno.
throttleP
rpm
rotrexFactor
We might use the rotrexFactor as a variable derived from the delta of throttleP/milisecond.
IAC, rotrexFactor is the ratio of engine rpm vs shaft speed on the 760kv motor.
We can build smoothness and failsafe with this variable.
The question, will always be, what do we want the 760kv motor to be doing at this instant?
To get to smoothness and safety, we can control the 760 kv motor which controls the boost pressure
and how fast we get to that pressure.
Also, can build safety for the engine components by how we fuel in the boosted region, where that
region is, how smoothly we fuel change in and out of the region etc.
If we can solve the puzzle to relate rpm to 760kv motor shaft speed;
-and relate that to when and how to start the 760kv motor via throttle position sensing;
Then we can add the fuel on the dyno that results in the most powerful, safe burn for the boost pressure.
From this Graph View of the NoCat1700 Map, we see the smoothing differences starting at 1000 rpm @ 10% TP.
But, we can also see the Power differences starting at 30% TP and 2200 RPM. Then, really boost the fueling up
to 3800 @ 60%
So, not a big region for the power gain, but 80% of the Map was smoothed.
I think we can do the same exercise again, according to Dyno Marc. Most of the smoothing curves are in there already.
| | Post edited by DizzE on 30 Nov 2012 - 15:52 |
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| | | AlainD | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/12/2010 | | Posts | : | 164 | | Location | : | Nice, France |
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| | Posted : 29 Nov 2012 - 21:35 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: DizzE) | | | Well, at the end it will probably be a bit more complex, as when dealing with Airflows Pressure and centrifugal blowers,
I have a feeling that there will be some power of 2 and we could use a lookup table instead of a formula we will see
Another point to consider is that when using a Sensorless BLDC motor there is some lag at start:
There is a procedure to bring the motor to a certain level of speed at whitch some bemf sensing will be available.
this minimum speed will be like kv/3 in a "noisy"environnement.
This will take around 0.5 second
You can see this lag on the video
After that accelerations will be faster than what is humanly possible on the throttle
So basically as putting the throttle to max can take less than 0.5s, we would have the motor always spinning if you do not want have this 0.5s lag before the big kick
| | Post edited by AlainD on 29 Nov 2012 - 21:38 |
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 29 Nov 2012 - 23:39 Post title : Re: Electronic Supercharger - Chapter 2 (Re: AlainD) | | | I think it may help under the concept of smoothness. The .05 second will be as the blower spins up and we can use that for a transition between fueling at un-boosted to boosted pressure.
We might need a special action to "go to boost." In other words, we make it deliberate. Something, maybe a pre-start thumb switch.
Good to have a master kill switch, IAC.
IAC, big project. Some will have to be done in email to protect the secret sauces.
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