|  | Topic : Cataphobia and the cure.....observations |  |
| | | daz | | Zeus |  |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 15 Sep 2012 - 02:54 Post title : Cataphobia and the cure.....observations | | | Dizze, you're Mr Understatement there son. I don't recall you singing the praises of your catless Bird and tune, so let me step in and do it for ya. So it was 103 here today and i figured it would be too hot this weekend to put the gutted cat on. But about 6 PM it was down to a chilly 90 or thereabouts and my anxiousness (did i just invent a new word?) got the better of me. So on with my gutted cat. Which by the way is only half-assed together.....no welding, just hacked the flap i cut off completely and bolted a plate on to cover it using hi temp gasket seal. Thats temporary, as i just wanted to see if i liked it enough to get it all welded up nicely. Well, i'm getting it welded up alright....fuck yes i am !
If i had my wish for perfection in what the final result would be, it would have been different than what i got, but by about 1%. The other 99% is effin' great. The tone is very different as is the power. It's a different bike. Very different, no shit. The tone is as someone else said, guttural. But heres the kicker....i hate loud and it's NOT ! It's louder than the tors with cat, but not a lot. It's deep deep deep. Did i mention it's deep? It does pop a bit, but not a lot at all, just a bit more than before which was almost not at all. But when it does it sounds a lot better and meaner. In a nutshell, it sounds freakin nice. I wasn't looking for volume or tone at all, so thats a bonus, especially being that it's still very reasonable volume wise, and that from a guy who doesn't, as i said, like loud.
Now what i DID want out of it is power. And buddy, you don't get that big a jump this easily and cheap anywhere else. Thanks for posting your tunes Dizze. W/O them i wouldn't have enjoyed the extra oomph i got before and this even better oomph i'm getting with your catless tune. Anyways, the power is increased a lot more from Dizze's WITH cat tune than that tune was over the stock tors map. This according to his dyno is 9 Ft Lbs better at 3500 than his cat tune and 5 HP better at the same RPM. And you feel it. What i noticed was while it felt stronger and quicker, what i saw looking at the speedo seemed to indicate it was even better than it felt. On the freeway a twist would make the needle jump up very fast, much better than before.
The new sound and power together truly changed the bike to the point that like i said, it's like a different machine, all in a good way. I'm trying not to gush, but it's hard because the short ride i just took had me really excited. I think i may be happy with it like this to the point i won 't even want those south bay cams. If you have the 1700 and are running tors or other pipes with aftermarket filter and no air mods, do yourself a favor and gut the cat and load dizze's no at tune. If they made 2 versions of the Tbird, one that felt and sounded like mine did b4 6PM today and one that felt and sounded like it did at 7, i wouldn't even consider the earlier version. This thing is fucking awesome. Now i just have to find a sheet of stainless and have it welded on. Thanks Dizz....
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
| | Post edited by daz on 15 Sep 2012 - 03:30 |
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| | | mjgt | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 16/09/2011 | | Posts | : | 2,201 | | Location | : | North Somerset, United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 15 Sep 2012 - 09:14 Post title : Re: Cataphobia and the cure.....observations (Re: daz) | | | So does this mean you are happy with the mod  It's not clear from what you've written 
| Mick . . .  Keep the rubber side down!!
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 15 Sep 2012 - 13:19 Post title : Re: Cataphobia and the cure.....observations (Re: mjgt) | | | Indubitably. 
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 15 Sep 2012 - 23:45 Post title : Re: Cataphobia and the cure.....observations (Re: daz) | | | By the way, what type of welder did ya'll say was necassary for stainless?
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | TBRider | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 21/10/2011 | | Posts | : | 834 | | Location | : | Foothills, The Mountains, United States |
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| | Posted : 16 Sep 2012 - 01:38 Post title : Re: Cataphobia and the cure.....observations (Re: daz) | | | Daz, is the piece you cut out still intact? You can use it as long as it's straight and clean cut.
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 16 Sep 2012 - 04:27 Post title : Re: Cataphobia and the cure.....observations (Re: TBRider) | | | Actually, I went to a industrial metal supply today and got a piece of stainless, so i'm good. It was only 8.5x4.5" so the guy didn't even charge me. I screwed it down and hammered the edges to conform to the curves because the cutout part ventured away from the flat area into the areas of the box that are curved. So they can tack it where necessary then do the bead all around. Midas mufflers is open tomorrow and they said they weld stainless so I'm going to bring it there and see if they find it weldable and how much they charge. Cannot wait to ride it some more.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | rabbi | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 28/02/2012 | | Posts | : | 926 | | Location | : | Geelong, Victoria, Australia |
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| | Posted : 16 Sep 2012 - 07:23 Post title : Re: Cataphobia and the cure.....observations (Re: daz) | | |
daz wrote:
By the way, what type of welder did ya'll say was necassary for stainless? |
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I just used mild steel wire MIG to weld up mine and painted the weld with zinc.
| "Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably why so few people engage in it"
Henry Ford
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| | | mjgt | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/09/2011 | | Posts | : | 2,201 | | Location | : | North Somerset, United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 16 Sep 2012 - 09:43 Post title : Re: Cataphobia and the cure.....observations (Re: daz) | | | Daz
If you have a good seal with the plate you have, why weld, save the cash for petrol
| Mick . . . Keep the rubber side down!!
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| | | mat1600 | | Thunderbird | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 06/03/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,596 | | Location | : | Bridlington, Democratic Independant State of Yorkshire, United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 16 Sep 2012 - 09:45 Post title : Re: Cataphobia and the cure.....observations (Re: mjgt) | | | I didn't realise the cat box was st/st.
| My first natural instinct is to breathe. My second is to evade tax's.
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 16 Sep 2012 - 13:57 Post title : Re: Cataphobia and the cure.....observations (Re: mjgt) | | |
mjgt wrote:
Daz
If you have a good seal with the plate you have, why weld, save the cash for petrol |
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The plate wasn't good at all. The exhaust blew the gasket sealer out and the middle of the plate buckled and there was a 1/2" opening all along the long edges. Didn't happen till the last part of my tests rides, but it was loud as the loudest harley at that point.
| I didn't realise the cat box was st/st. |
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I suppose being where it is exposed to the worse elements and because cats supposedly heat up to about double what the rest of the exhaust does, it needs to be non corrosive. But in any case it is SS. I tried the magnet test and sure enough it''s non ferrous. Heres the stainless plate ready for welding. The screws are just there to hold it in place then will be removed after it;'s tacked and holes welded over.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | brackforce | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 25/04/2010 | | Posts | : | 123 | | Location | : | Fayetteville, NC, United States |
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| | Posted : 16 Sep 2012 - 18:43 Post title : Re: Cataphobia and the cure.....observations (Re: daz) | | | Man, I'm so excited to get my bike back now. Those bastards at the shop called me Thursday and said they still haven't figured anything out and are waiting for more word from Triumph. I figured at this point I would let them keep it for a while longer to see if they finally solve the problem. I'm still gonna go with straight elbows at first, but your post is making me consider a gutted cat now.
| "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
2010 Black and Blue Haze 1700
2006 Bobbed-out Royal Enfield Bullet Sixty-5
1976 Panzer Grey CJ750 with Sidecar
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 16 Sep 2012 - 19:54 Post title : Re: Cataphobia and the cure.....observations (Re: brackforce) | | |
brackforce wrote:
I'm still gonna go with straight elbows at first, but your post is making me consider a gutted cat now. |
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No, don't bother ! I need to radically revise my review on the gutted cat. I had it welded today after driving all over hell to find a place on sunday that would do it. Installed it and went for a ride. Very little of what i felt and heard the other nite was there. The sound was very slightly deeper....I THINK. The power was better, but not like i felt the other nite. The reason is this. When i started it up that nite it was quiet till i took off, at which time i now realize the plate had already started buckling and the gasket material blowing out. By the end of the ride it was even more so. Now with the permanent plate welded on and no leaks, it's almost the same as it was with the stock cat in place. Theres a little better power but not like the other nite and it sounds almost exactly the same as w/cat. Go with the elbows ! I certainly am ! What a waste....$125 altogether for the cat, welding, and gasket material i used on the temp plate. Lesson learned: cat w/material removed but channels still in place ain't much different than stock cat. I thought it would be as free flowing as the elbows because while the exhaust has to do a U turn, the amount of space is much larger then it would be in the elbows, or so it seems. But i guess it's the direct path the elbows supply that makes the difference. Thats what was on Dizze's bike when this tune was made so i guess thats what it needs to provide the goods as shown on his dyno.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 16 Sep 2012 - 21:23 Post title : Re: Cataphobia and the cure.....observations (Re: daz) | | | I just realized what i need to do. Several people who've used elbows with tors or other AM pipes have said it sounds pretty loud and raspy. After hearing mine with the cat box open after the gasket material blew out and the plate buckled, i'm pretty sure it's going to be a bit much. But the cat box as it is is also too much, but in the opposite direction. So i realized i can simply insert a drill into the header end of the cat and drill a hole in the inner cat housing which will then give me a straight thru route from header to tor. The size of the hole will determine the amount of flow that will be able to go thru while the rest is forced around the U turn it now has to take to get to the tors. By manipulating the size of the hole I should be able to arrive at the perfect degree of sound which in turn should also bring me the extra bit of power, if not as much as elbows. Or i may find drilling it fully open isn't as loud as it's said to be, never know. Anyone have any thoughts on the hole size to start with?
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
| | Post edited by daz on 16 Sep 2012 - 21:25 |
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| | | large | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 22/08/2009 | | Posts | : | 168 | | Location | : | North Tazewell, virgina, United States |
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| | Posted : 17 Sep 2012 - 00:36 Post title : Re: Cataphobia and the cure.....observations (Re: daz) | | | I did the drill thing on my cat first I liked it so I stepped it up a little at a time but then I cut the cat at the weld seam and gutted it so its a empty box with long tors has a deep note. I am running dizzies catless tune I tried the catted tune first but it popped to much been running this for 8000 miles
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 17 Sep 2012 - 01:13 Post title : Re: Cataphobia and the cure.....observations (Re: large) | | | You're just the person i need to talk to !!!  Seriously, you have the info i need. What was the smallest and final size hole you drilled and how loud was it each time. I'm really stumped as to how big to drill and i don't want to go too large at first but also don't want to have to remove the cat a lot of time.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 17 Sep 2012 - 01:54 Post title : Re: Cataphobia and the cure.....observations (Re: daz) | | | trying it now Large. But how the hell did you drill it? I'm trying but it's hard to see in there and the surface is rounded so any bit i use just slips down the side before i can get a pilot hole started. Tried to punch a starter dimple in it but nothing will dent it !
EDIT: finally got them drilled be what a fiasco. Starting with about a 3/4" hole. See how it goes then widen it if it need more.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
| | Post edited by daz on 17 Sep 2012 - 13:20 |
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| | | large | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 22/08/2009 | | Posts | : | 168 | | Location | : | North Tazewell, virgina, United States |
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| | Posted : 18 Sep 2012 - 21:44 Post title : Re: Cataphobia and the cure.....observations (Re: daz) | | | I did a small pilot hole 1/4" then used a air die grinder with a rotary burr like for porting heads with a long shank took some time though. That stainless is hard to do any thing with after I started I was committed to finish good luck
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 18 Sep 2012 - 22:01 Post title : Re: Cataphobia and the cure.....observations (Re: large) | | | yeah, i finally did it starting it as as you described, but what a pain. after the pilot i used a step bit with an extension and once that was as big as i could get it i used a thing which i guess is also a rotary burr. I call it a rasp, but i don't know. It's a barrel shaped bit about 1.5" long and 1/2" round with a rounded top and covered with "burrs" i guess you'd call them. Little scoop like teeth. I finally got them maybe 2/3 as big as the pipe opening, but the end result was louder without any more deepness. I'm trying straight pipes that TBrider is kindly sending me. (stainless rather then using a galvanized elbow) He said it will not really sound louder because it will sound much deeper and smoother. I believe thats what you said too. I hope so. If i can get that power and feel back i had when the cat plate buckled and was flowing freely and LOUDLY, i will be a happy camper.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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