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Technical Talk -> How to ... step by step.	The definitive clutch cable... - Side Stand Maintenance
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Topic : Wheel alignment tool

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bbv203

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Posted : 11 Jul 2016 - 02:09 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: davetac1)

davetac1 wrote:

Wow!! All that rubber mess on the rim means you're definitely eating up the belt.If it was me, I'd bring it back and complain.Was this place a Triumph dealership that performed this service????

No, just a shop I've dealt with before with my other bikes, seen other Triumphs there before...figured I'd be alright.

Already emailed the owner, he apologized and offered to correct it, but I'm the kind of mindset that if you can't do it right the first time, don't bother trying again.

Where I have it now seems ok, but not ideal...tried finding some nuts to do your trick, but nothing narrow enough or small enough in diameter at the local ACE Hardware....

It's not ideal, but it's not hard pressed against the right like before. Thing that throws me is that no matter what I do on the jack stands, it stays to left, on the road it's almost instantly to the right.

I should have checked everything before getting the tires, but hindsight is always 20/20.

2010 Blue & White 1600 Thunderbird-K&N Air Filter-BC Hogslayers-Power Commander V and AT-300-Corbin saddles

Thanks to PhotoBucket being extortionist a**hole$, the pictures you are looking for are no longer available in the post. The links below are to Imgur, click the one pertaining to what you were trying to see Link Suzuki TL1000S, Link Suzuki TL1000S-2, Link Triumph Thuderbird

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bbv203

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Posted : 11 Jul 2016 - 03:00 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: bbv203)

Here's how out sits on jack stands, spinning wheel either forward or backwards

And this is what happens after a 0.8 mile lap ( in both directions L & R) around my neighborhood...

EDIT:

Lift it back up, three spins of the wheel and it's back to this

Post edited by bbv203 on 11 Jul 2016 - 03:14

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AZCactus

Taranis

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Posted : 11 Jul 2016 - 03:49 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: bbv203)

Thank You, these pics will help tremendously as i adjust my belt!!

2009 Thunderbird 1700 Big Bore

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bbv203

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Posted : 11 Jul 2016 - 04:03 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: AZCactus)

Now if only I could figure out why mine is strange...

Wheel is cleaned now, I'll try and actually ride it tomorrow, see if it still does the same thing....

Oh and don't take those pics as being correct, I'm trying to find that out myself.

Post edited by bbv203 on 11 Jul 2016 - 04:10

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AZCactus

Taranis

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Posted : 11 Jul 2016 - 05:55 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: bbv203)

This is my situation...I'm not able to align the belt properly (as of yet). This pic looks ok but there's an underlying problem, the inner cog wears on the right-side of the pulley. My guess is the swingarm is out of alignment, maybe loose. And I've used the Triumph tool, caliper, etc....

btw, I adjusted the belt 2500 miles ago without issue.

2009 Thunderbird 1700 Big Bore

Post edited by AZCactus on 11 Jul 2016 - 06:02

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Linkdog

Thor

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Posted : 11 Jul 2016 - 14:10 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: AZCactus)

Have you guys checked your cush drive bearings for excessive tolerance? I switched to Matts bearing swap and mine runs true now ( pulley does not pitch in either direction ) , In other words see if you can grab the pulley with both hands like a steering wheel push with one hand and pull with the other in and out and see if the pulley wiggles, it should not and if it does there's something out of spec.

Never drink from a cow with one udder!

2010 1600 Blue&White ( of course ) Long TORS and HP filter.

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bbv203

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Posted : 11 Jul 2016 - 14:17 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: Linkdog)

Linkdog wrote:

Have you guys checked your cush drive bearings for excessive tolerance? I switched to Matts bearing swap and mine runs true now ( pulley does not pitch in either direction ) , In other words see if you can grab the pulley with both hands like a steering wheel push with one hand and pull with the other in and out and see if the pulley wiggles, it should not and if it does there's something out of spec.

Mine seems fine, the bike only has 4300 miles on it. Pretty sure this was the first time the wheels have ever been off as it had the original tires from '09 on it still.

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davetac1

Thunderbird

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Posted : 11 Jul 2016 - 19:26 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: bbv203)

As I was telling Rich [ AZ Cactus] the other day on the phone,getting the belt correct is a TRIAL AND ERROR process.And I can't tell ya just how many hours of aggravation and frustration I spent to achieve that.And when ya finally get it right,ya write down those settings for future reference.And should it go out of adjustment again after X amount of miles,[mine isn't doing that] that tells me that something is loose and or moving.My rear tire was changed a couple months ago and has now traveled alittle over 6,000 miles and so far,so good as the belt is still in the same place I set it when I changed that tire.

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bbv203

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Posted : 11 Jul 2016 - 19:30 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: davetac1)

Well I've been at it since Saturday around 5:30 pm....

Gotta pick up a kid from school avg walk the dog, then I'll test it again.

Think a set of the better adjusters might be the next step if he has any left, should've just got them last year when I asked him about them

Post edited by bbv203 on 11 Jul 2016 - 19:40

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mat1600

Thunderbird

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Posted : 11 Jul 2016 - 21:43 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: bbv203)

bbv203 wrote:

Think a set of the better adjusters might be the next step if he has any left, should've just got them last year when I asked him about them

There can still be a bit of trial and error with the new adjusters like Dave said, but they make it far easier to do - and you can do it while the bike is on the side stand. If the belt swaps sides it probably means you have it bang on.
The pulley arrangement is a good idea - it's just not been implemented very well. A lot more thought could have saved endless hours of setting. In order for timing pulleys to operate correctly they have to be dead parallel and remain so.

My first natural instinct is to breathe. My second is to evade tax's.

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GerPa

Jupiter

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Posted : 11 Jul 2016 - 22:13 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: bbv203)

bbv203 wrote:

Here's how out sits on jack stands, spinning wheel either forward or backwards

And this is what happens after a 0.8 mile lap ( in both directions L & R) around my neighborhood...

EDIT:

Lift it back up, three spins of the wheel and it's back to this

Exactly what I said 3 hrs ago.

Oih Aaron
It's like "herding cats on a dark night" don't go mad doing it.

That should be close enough. mine has always run to the RHS when going forwards, EXCEPT when I do a 3 point turn to back it into my shed and by the time I have gone backwards a few meters it has wandered across to the middle.

May-2011-1600, 20306 Tune, Mustang Vintage Solo Seat, Meerkat Cat Bypass, + Meerkat Modified Short TORS

,K&N Air Cleaner,K&N Oil Filter, JBQ lifting system, Gold Plug Magnetic Sump Plug,Dart Fly screen, Rivco Risers, GiPro Gear Indicator, Breakaway Cruise Control, Avon ISO Grips, Scorpion Western Low Handlebars, Kury Switchblade Pegs, Garmin Zumo390LM,Michelin RC2 on Front RC 3 on ,Modified Rear Drive Pulley Hub Bearings (Mat1600/Alex4 Modification) Front Susp: Std & 7.5W Oil /126mm Air Gap & Rear:Hagon Nitro's with 26Kg/cm Springs + Lots of other "Bling" stuff.

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bbv203

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Posted : 11 Jul 2016 - 22:51 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool

Adjusted again today, same result. Adjusters are ordered, I'm not gonna mess with it anymore unless I start seeing all the rubber shavings again.

I never worried about it before the tire change, and I know it rode to the right before.

Ended up with RHS: 3.199", LHS: 3.191", and belt at 0.370" deflection.

Does seem to move a bit when you torque the axle.

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mat1600

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Posted : 12 Jul 2016 - 07:46 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: bbv203)

bbv203 wrote:

Does seem to move a bit when you torque the axle.

With the new adjusters you can have the axle nut semi tight and still adjust. This saves on the whole thing moving when you fully tighten.

The measurements you have are well within Triumphs tolerance.

My first natural instinct is to breathe. My second is to evade tax's.

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AZCactus

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Posted : 18 Jul 2016 - 04:47 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: bbv203)

In my case the LHS measurement is more...but who knows. Anyway, I think my alignment is good and the belt runs (not hard or feathered) to the right, centered on the front pulley.

today Harley tried to take me on a freeway onramp but looked like a speck in the mirror. And as i hit the next exit he waived, that's cool.

2009 Thunderbird 1700 Big Bore

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davetac1

Thunderbird

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Posted : 18 Jul 2016 - 15:13 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: AZCactus)

I don't know if I had posted this or not,but a couple weeks ago,I pulled in to get gas and there were three HD's gasing up at the island right next to me.All three of em looked at my bike,commenting that they were not aware that Triumph was still in business ,let alone,made a touring version.I explained that my bike was the Thunderbird 1600 SE model which came with all the goodies [minus the radio]but the SE was only manufactured for the 2010 model year,while the other production models were just a bare bones version like the HD's these gentlemen were riding.Then I mentioned the LT ,which we all know, is also a touring version,but with a 1700 motor,and was available,if they were interested,which they appeared to be. Then they asked how many miles I had on my Bird and almost had a heart attack when I told em, just shy of the 103,000 mile mark.lol All three of their HD's "combined" only had 70,000 miles on em and,according to them, had spent a lot of time in the repair shop.[what a shocker,lol] So it kinda looks like the Triumph is gaining recognition and the Harley boys are looking at it.

Dave!!!

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AZCactus

Taranis

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Posted : 20 Jul 2016 - 04:09 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: davetac1)

I'm back in the saddle and the belt adjustment is good (after trial and error, many timeouts and a Triumph mechanic's opinion). And I'm convinced the belt should run to the right (in my case)...similar to two Storms and a Commander at the dealership.

2009 Thunderbird 1700 Big Bore

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davetac1

Thunderbird

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Posted : 20 Jul 2016 - 20:46 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: AZCactus)

Trial and error,as you now know Rich, is how we learn when all else fails ,plus a lot of four letter words aimed at this bike.

Ya might as well throw the SM away for this job cause it really doesn't help ya!

Wouldn't you agree Rich???

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AZCactus

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Posted : 21 Jul 2016 - 04:11 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: davetac1)

Yeah Dave, definitely tough at times...persistence. I especially like it when you should disconnect the battery to adjust the clutch cable (or something like that, lol).

2009 Thunderbird 1700 Big Bore

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davetac1

Thunderbird

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Posted : 21 Jul 2016 - 21:04 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: AZCactus)

Well,ya wouldn't wanna short circuit the clutch now,would ya????

But to be quite frank with ya,the reason all motor vehicle manufacturers NOW tell ya to "DISCONNECT" "BATTERY NEGATIVE" "BEFORE" doin any work on a vehicle, is because we have people out there,including some of our local stealership's so called "factory trained technicians", who aren't qualified to work on a wheel barrow

and,ultimately, could create serious,not to mention,"EXPENSIVE" damage to the electrical system of said vehicle.You'd be "surprised" at just how many of these people are actually out there.I know several,myself!!

For example!!Just look at me?? I don't know jack shit about motor vehicles!!

And sometimes,even the pro's get into trouble,because ya get so involved in what you're doing,concentrating on a specific job or problem,and working in a tight area,ya forget what components are around the area you're working in,and can "inadvertantly" hit a wire or electrical component, creating yet, another problem. And it DOES HAPPEN as "unfortunately" it goes with the territory. So disconnecting battery negative is really not a bad idea.I mean,if you're changing tires,then naturally,ya wouldn't have to disconnect the battery. Dave!!!

Post edited by davetac1 on 22 Jul 2016 - 17:03

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bbv203

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Posted : 07 Aug 2016 - 19:00 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: mat1600)

mat1600 wrote:

There can still be a bit of trial and error with the new adjusters like Dave said, but they make it far easier to do - and you can do it while the bike is on the side stand. If the belt swaps sides it probably means you have it bang on.
The pulley arrangement is a good idea - it's just not been implemented very well. A lot more thought could have saved endless hours of setting. In order for timing pulleys to operate correctly they have to be dead parallel and remain so.

So I FINALLY got the adjusters installed the other day, still had a helluva time getting it anywhere but hard to either side, even trying everyone else's offset recommendations. Finally got it to where at rest or on decel it will be closer to the inside (LH) of the pulley, but on accelleration it wanders to the outside (RH) side of the pulley. At least is isn't just staying hard against one side anymore. At rest and (I am assuming) on decel it is smack in the middle of the front pulley.

I ended up having to have the LH side 0.031" less than the RH side.

I'm settling for:
Belt Deflection: 0.365"
RH Adjuster: 3.202"
LH Adjuster: 3.171"

Post edited by bbv203 on 07 Aug 2016 - 20:28

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gwight

Chaac

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Posted : 07 Aug 2016 - 22:09 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: bbv203)

Aaron, go for a half decent ride & then check your belt tension again. Let us all know what you come up with.

Guido.

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Dags

Set

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Posted : 07 Aug 2016 - 22:13 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: bbv203)

Pretty similar with mine also LH shorter
Last measurements written up on the white board some time ago has
RH 80.66 (3.175")
LH 79.85 (3.143")
Forum has a varying cast of measurements but all seem happy with their numbers.

Dags

Post edited by Dags on 07 Aug 2016 - 22:15

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bbv203

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Posted : 08 Aug 2016 - 19:34 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: gwight)

gwight wrote:

Aaron, go for a half decent ride & then check your belt tension again. Let us all know what you come up with.

Guido.

I've put about 40 miles on it, strapped my Contour camera back there during that time, and was able to watch it move back and forth. Video quality is crap though, so I won't torment ya'll with it.

Had to take the other bike out today, it was getting jealous

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Snyperx

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Posted : 14 Sep 2016 - 19:30 Post title : Re: Wheel alignment tool (Re: bbv203)

I just picked up my alignment tool from the dealer ($48). Can someone give me the quick run down on how to effectively use it? I read most of this thread and think I have it figured out, but hearing from anyone that has used this a few times with "some" success would be great!!

Regards,
Snyperx

==============
2012 Thunderbird 1600

Post edited by Snyperx on 14 Sep 2016 - 19:32

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