|  | Topic : Nology Spark Plugs/Coils |  |
| | | fasteddy | | Chaac |  |  | | Reg. Date | : | 16/10/2008 | | Posts | : | 963 | | Location | : | Wisconsin, United States |
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| | Posted : 09 Nov 2010 - 01:16 Post title : Nology Spark Plugs/Coils | | | I have been in contact with Nology regarding things for the Thunderbird. Their coils have a great reputation with the Bonneville/America PT engines, so I asked about the Thunderbird 1600. As some of you know the Thunderbird has coils that are mounted on top of each plug (that is four) they tell me that configuration is lacking in power distribution, as for me I don't know. They will be looking into a performance replacement for us, but no time line is set.
They do offer their Hot Wire plug wires (leads) and their new high output Silver electrode plugs that are hailed as the best output plugs, but I don't know about such things other than what they tell me? Since I am out of the loop for the winter here of any real testing, anyone interested in trying out a set, for evaluations, I'll make a nice discount for an honest appraisal. (first two to PM me)
eddy
| www.fasteddysports.com
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| | | daz | | Zeus | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 09 Nov 2010 - 02:55 Post title : Re: Nology Spark Plugs/Coils (Re: fasteddy) | | | Well, I had nology coils on my speedmaster and they didn't seem to make any difference. I have a feeling with the Tbird it will be even less likely. But i'll keep an eye on those who end up trying them. Spark plugs have been said by others to likely make no difference with this bike due to the 4 plug arrangement. However, I DID get a very considerable improvement on the speedmaster with Iridiums. I actually got even better performance side gapping the standard stock plugs. that was the best damn mod i did to that bike in the fact that it costs nothing....can't beat that price, and the gain i got wasn't much different than the short pipes did for my tbird. It also smoothed the vibes out like the shorties on the Tbird amazingly, and thirdly stabilized the idle which was always erratic before that.
IMO the coils and plugs won't probably do much if anything for the tbird. But thats just my opinion and by no means gospel. I wanted to try iridiums but they don't make them for the bird. And while side gapping works even better, someone at RAT once talked about the possibility of damaging the engine by doing that. I ran mine about 20-25k with side gapped plugs w/o problems, amnd many people said what he told me is BS. But with the bird and the fact i now have close to $20k in the damn thing i worry a lot more about what i do to it !
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 09 Nov 2010 - 04:12 Post title : Re: Nology Spark Plugs/Coils (Re: daz) | | | Just a suggestion regarding spark plugs.A long time ago I learned to use the recommended plug, with the exception that the plugs I used were NON RESISTOR,no "R" in the number on the plug.I already have a set in stock for my Bird to replace the original plugs with when the time comes.I ran non resistor plugs successfully in my other machines and was getting good performance,good fuel economy, plus an easy 25,000 miles out of a set.Unfortuately though,NGK is the only manufacturer that you can still get em from. Dave!!!
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 09 Nov 2010 - 05:06 Post title : Re: Nology Spark Plugs/Coils (Re: davetac1) | | | Any insight into the technical reasons for this? Curious.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | TraderVic | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 02/02/2010 | | Posts | : | 274 | | Location | : | Manahawkin, NJ, United States |
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| | Posted : 09 Nov 2010 - 13:06 Post title : Re: Nology Spark Plugs/Coils (Re: fasteddy) | | |
fasteddy wrote:
the Thunderbird has coils that are mounted on top of each plug (that is four) they tell me that configuration is lacking in power distribution |
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What a bunch of crap. Don't waste your money on anything that comes from them.
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 09 Nov 2010 - 13:25 Post title : Re: Nology Spark Plugs/Coils (Re: TraderVic) | | | When in doubt..use the keyword SCAM on google with your search. PROBLEM, RIPOFF, etc. btw, you don't need the capital letters.
This probably will work for forced induction setups. Hotter spark, sure. But, this ECU controls both charge dwell and fire time.
I'm reading nothing that says this will work for us and will most probably be an impedance mis-match. I don't see coil Ohms listed
in the specs. The problem with most these electrical performance claims is that they are not generally measurable in any real way.
Not to say what your business model is, only my perception of the service you provide....don't you only want to be associated with
items that bring an un-questionable benefit for your customers? There is a lot of this kind of stuff you could carry, but I for
one would not like to see you go there. 
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| | | davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 09 Nov 2010 - 15:43 Post title : Re: Nology Spark Plugs/Coils (Re: daz) | | |
daz wrote:
Any insight into the technical reasons for this? Curious. |
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Yes! #1,the plugs are cheaper.#2,you'll get a hotter spark out of the plug,and #3,the motor will run better improving overall performance of the motor.
Now the exception to this would be "IF" the MAP SENSOR[S] ,which is an input sensor,used frequency instead of the traditional low voltage[5 volts] to feed info to the ECM.As far as I know,the motorcycle world hasn't gotten into that stage yet where the automotive world has.But then again,I don't know of anyone who has tried non resistor plugs with a frequency system in the automotive world either which means that they still might work with a frequency system.The problem is,with the exception of NGK,the other plug manufacturers have discontinued non resistor plugs.
Years ago,non resistor plugs and solid core plug wires,were the norm for everything.But they were also raising hell with the vehicle's radio reception creating a lot of static and or interference from the ignition system.Hence the reason the manufacturers went to resistor plugs and resistor plug wires which stopped that.And then you also had interference from the old generator systems and also the newer alternators.The generator disappeared in the early 60's and the alternator came into being.And even the alternatior was creating radio interference so the manufactruers built in a filter,condensor,capacitor,whatever,lol, to stop that.Now I've been using non resistor plugs in my motorcycles,as well as other people's motorcycles, for the past 30 years [they all either came with radios or I installed em in the machine]and never had any ignition interference or reception problems from any em. Dave!!!
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| | | mad_angler1 | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 18/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 511 | | Location | : | United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 09 Nov 2010 - 17:05 Post title : Re: Nology Spark Plugs/Coils (Re: davetac1) | | |
davetac1 wrote:
daz wrote:
Any insight into the technical reasons for this? Curious. |
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Yes! #1,the plugs are cheaper.#2,you'll get a hotter spark out of the plug,and #3,the motor will run better improving overall performance of the motor.
Now the exception to this would be "IF" the MAP SENSOR[S] ,which is an input sensor,used frequency instead of the traditional low voltage[5 volts] to feed info to the ECM.As far as I know,the motorcycle world hasn't gotten into that stage yet where the automotive world has.But then again,I don't know of anyone who has tried non resistor plugs with a frequency system in the automotive world either which means that they still might work with a frequency system.The problem is,with the exception of NGK,the other plug manufacturers have discontinued non resistor plugs.
Years ago,non resistor plugs and solid core plug wires,were the norm for everything.But they were also raising hell with the vehicle's radio reception creating a lot of static and or interference from the ignition system.Hence the reason the manufacturers went to resistor plugs and resistor plug wires which stopped that.And then you also had interference from the old generator systems and also the newer alternators.The generator disappeared in the early 60's and the alternator came into being.And even the alternatior was creating radio interference so the manufactruers built in a filter,condensor,capacitor,whatever,lol, to stop that.Now I've been using non resistor plugs in my motorcycles,as well as other people's motorcycles, for the past 30 years [they all either came with radios or I installed em in the machine]and never had any ignition interference or reception problems from any em. Dave!!! |
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What the MAP sensors have to do with it i don't know??? , they provide the engine with vacuum data for the low end throttle rather than TPS, as with ALL the sensors on this bike it a CAN sensor, digital data on a network is passed to the ECU, same as every modern EU car.
as for the plugs nothing is going to make any difference on this bike, it as standard uses as very hot plug rating and it already has twin plugs per cylinder, and the engine only revs to 6k so the plugs should have no problems keeping up with that.
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| | | davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 09 Nov 2010 - 18:28 Post title : Re: Nology Spark Plugs/Coils (Re: mad_angler1) | | | The MAP [MANIFOLD ABSOLUTE PRESSURE] SENSOR is used to measure manifold vacuum.Normally it uses voltage with a perameter of 0.000 volts to 5.000 volts.It is used as an input sensor and sends info to the ECM.It converts the vacuum it reads into voltage which is then sent to the ECM to adjust fuel and timing according to the load placed on the motor.I cannot speak for countires other than the US,but I do know that the foreign vehicles use em too.But I don't know if they've gone to frequency yet or not.The newer vehicles in this country now use frequency,which is supposed to be more efficent to send input information to the ECM.And because the newer MAP sensors use frequency,using a non resistor plug could interfere with those signals,hence fouling up the operation of the vehicle.
Now in any internal combustion engine,the better the spark,the better that engine will run.Not only is it beneficial to economy and emissions,but that engine WILL run better. Dave!!!
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| | | Birdy68 | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 16/07/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,352 | | Location | : | Bad Zurzach, Aargau, Switzerland |
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| | Posted : 09 Nov 2010 - 18:52 Post title : Re: Nology Spark Plugs/Coils (Re: davetac1) | | | I just know that over on the TigerTriple forum they swear that the Nology coils are the best. They say that on the cold days their Tigers start up MUCH quicker than with the standard coils.
... but they also recommend having the combination of Iridium spark plugs AND the Nology coils!
Just my 0.2 Rp worth!
I'd like to have the Nology's on my Tiger - but if I'm going to be replacing the T400 with an 800XC, then there's no need to spend the money.
| Birdy68
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Leave the pork pies for now - get the sausage rolls while they're hot!
 -x-  -x- 
more info at Fuelly.com
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| | | ataDude | | Chaac | | | Reg. Date | : | 19/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 527 | | Location | : | Texas, United States |
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| | Posted : 09 Nov 2010 - 20:21 Post title : Re: Nology Spark Plugs/Coils | | | My unsolicited $0.02.
I have used the Nology coils on one of my prior bikes. Not wires, not plugs.
There was NO (none, nada, zero) noticeable difference between them and stock. None.
I would assume that if you have a very old bike with older coils, they may help... but, IMHO, nothing made in the last 20 years would see improvement.
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| | Post edited by ataDude on 09 Nov 2010 - 20:22 |
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| | | davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 10 Nov 2010 - 04:17 Post title : Re: Nology Spark Plugs/Coils (Re: ataDude) | | | I think you'll find that these high po ignition coils are excellent coils but designed for a high reving,high performance motor.And I'm talkin race track or drag strip here.One of the reasons that no difference is noticed when using one of these high po ignition coils in the average motorcycle is because the average motorcycle engine is only designed for normal street use,meaning it's rpm range is limited.Anything higher will disintergrate the motor.It's when ya get up into the double digit high revs that the high po ignition coil will shine because after a certain rpm,the average coil will break down where the high performance coil will not.So the question is:Does one really need a high po coil for their motorcycle?? The answer is NO! But that doesn't mean that they are not good coils. Dave!!!
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 10 Nov 2010 - 14:02 Post title : Re: Nology Spark Plugs/Coils (Re: davetac1) | | | The only other reason to buy them on a bike like ours may be cost if the stocks go bad. I say "may" because we don't know yet, but on the 900's the stock coils were much more expensive than nologys. So if the stockers broke, and they tended to fairly often on those bikes, then replacing then with nologys was a no brainer. Cost less,more reliable. So regardless of there being zero performance gain, they do have thier place.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | TraderVic | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 02/02/2010 | | Posts | : | 274 | | Location | : | Manahawkin, NJ, United States |
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| | Posted : 10 Nov 2010 - 16:17 Post title : Re: Nology Spark Plugs/Coils (Re: fasteddy) | | |
fasteddy wrote:
the Thunderbird has coils that are mounted on top of each plug (that is four) they tell me that configuration is lacking in power distribution |
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I would really love to have them explain this.
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 10 Nov 2010 - 16:27 Post title : Re: Nology Spark Plugs/Coils (Re: TraderVic) | | | +1
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 10 Nov 2010 - 16:48 Post title : Re: Nology Spark Plugs/Coils (Re: TraderVic) | | | I'm pretty sure thier answer would be size, because you can't put a full sized coil there like on a typical bike. I'm not saying that they are right in that their coils would perform better, but that would seem like the obvious answer. It may also be true that 4 full size coils might have an advantage in longer life or some such thing, but thats not a reason to replace them, at least not till they go bad or are proven unreliable.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 10 Nov 2010 - 19:37 Post title : Re: Nology Spark Plugs/Coils (Re: TraderVic) | | | TraderVic wrote:
fasteddy wrote:
the Thunderbird has coils that are mounted on top of each plug (that is four) they tell me that configuration is lacking in power distribution |
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I would really love to have them explain this.
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The shorter the distance the spark has to travel,the hotter the spark and the more accurate the ignition timing will be.Most of the vehicles in the automotive world have been using similar systems for sometime now.I believe they're called "DIRECT IGNITION" ,"COP"[coil on plug],and "CNP" [coil near plug"] and it IS a better system.Triumph is simply coming up to speed with the rest of the world.However,the downside of the "coil on plug" system is that they are now exposed to excessive heat as opposed to the coils of yester year which were mounted as far away from any heat source as it,they, could be, and still provide an acceptable spark to the plug.Plus,that spark still had to travel from the coil[s],thru a set of ignition wires,which had resistance,and to the plugs. So basically the speed of the spark traveling to the plug was slowed considerably.
I have experienced quite a few coil failures on automobiles using the COP and CNP systems because of their location and the added heat.But it's usually somewheres around the 100,000 mile mark which isn't really that bad considering the heat that they are subjected to. Dave!!!
| | Post edited by davetac1 on 10 Nov 2010 - 19:54 |
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| | | fasteddy | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/10/2008 | | Posts | : | 963 | | Location | : | Wisconsin, United States |
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| | Posted : 11 Nov 2010 - 00:16 Post title : Re: Nology Spark Plugs/Coils (Re: davetac1) | | | Thanks for the feedback, as I stated, in this area I don't know and I really do take the manufacturer of ANY performance item with a grain of salt because they all are trying to sell the latest and greatest. As for the Nology coils, the ones I have sold for the Bonneville engine platform have been replacements, guys tell me they run better with them, but may be because they are going from a bad coil (broke) to one that works...again, their opinions I have not done a side by side comparison.
As for the Thunderbird and the Coil On Top, maybe I got it wrong on what they referred to in terms of power distribution, it may have been longevity. They were not dissing Triumph, just the style of coil. But it may bee a moot point. Just wanted to get a feel from you guys on what your thoughts were and you did!
Now the Irridium vs Silver vs steel or ceramic electrodes on plugs. Is there real science here? conductivity comes into play does it not? Or is a plug just a plug just a plug? My understanding of the electrical world is pretty basic and I have always wondered about plugs in general.
eddy
PS and Dizze, your right, if I knew something was bogus I would drop it is a second. I may have missed something along the way but I have never heard anything but good from folks regarding Nology, again my experience has been based on I was asked for them and have not had any negative feed back, they tell me they were less expensive than stock and better quality.
| www.fasteddysports.com
| | Post edited by fasteddy on 11 Nov 2010 - 00:22 |
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 11 Nov 2010 - 04:07 Post title : Re: Nology Spark Plugs/Coils (Re: fasteddy) | | |
fasteddy wrote:
Now the Irridium vs Silver vs steel or ceramic electrodes on plugs. Is there real science here? conductivity comes into play does it not? Or is a plug just a plug just a plug? My understanding of the electrical world is pretty basic and I have always wondered about plugs in general.
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I had quite a problem with this issue a few years back because i insisted that in my case at the least there was a absofreakinglutely ZERO doubt that plugs do make a difference, and not a small one. I was lambasted by a bunch of idiots and made fun of for even suggesting it. But on MY BIKE there was a improvement in 3 areas that was 100% undeniable with either irridiums or side gapped plugs. I actually found side gapped ones to be the best. There was an improvement in the power that was not subtle. In fact, if i put regular plugs back in the bike felt weak after running side gapped plugs. Second, they smoothed the bike out so much the mirrors went from very blurry (aftermarket ones) to probably 80% better. And third, the carberated speedy always had an erratic idle and this fixed that. At one point a number of others tried side gapping thier plugs and out of about 10 people 8 or 9 of them noticed the improvement with many rather amazed like myself at it.
So hell yeah, plugs CAN matter. But the important thing to note is that like with many things it's totally dependent on many things including whether the bike you try them on can benefit from whatever those plugs do. And again, the best result i got was with the standard plugs side gapped, so it costs nothing to see. I never tried anything else tho besides irridiums and sidegapped standard plugs and side gapped irridiums. The side gapped irridiums are the way to go because the difference between them and side gapped standards is so subtle, it's best to go with side gapped irridiums. The reason is that when you side gap plugs they wear much quicker, and irridium plugs wear far far slower. I had some side gapped standards wear so fast before that within a couple thousand miles the gap got too big to fire reliably and the bike began to run bad or foul. So unless you SG'd irridiums you have to gap them every couple K.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 11 Nov 2010 - 14:14 Post title : Re: Nology Spark Plugs/Coils (Re: daz) | | | Yeah, I'm not saying these are SCAMs. I just use that as a key word when I do the 'deny' research. Every topic gets that treatment.
Sometimes the first hit is a site dedicated to exposure. Not in this case. It's just not measurable very easily.
I've actually seen mention of going 2 lower in spark heat rating for lower rev torque. Don't quote me...still studying this.
But, it seems to be the idea of slowing down the flame front propagation. 
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| | | fasteddy | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/10/2008 | | Posts | : | 963 | | Location | : | Wisconsin, United States |
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| | Posted : 11 Nov 2010 - 14:42 Post title : Re: Nology Spark Plugs/Coils (Re: daz) | | | Daz, that is my understanding with most "improved" plugs is the wear of the electrode. I know I saw a plug in a car that had never been replaced and the electrode wore down to it's base! Resulted in a huge gap which I suspect was why the fellow had a poor running car!
So Daz, point me to this information on side gaping and what exactly it is (how to)
As to the coil on top, check the pricing on if you have to replace any...scary!
eddy
| www.fasteddysports.com
| | Post edited by fasteddy on 11 Nov 2010 - 14:45 |
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 29 Nov 2010 - 14:07 Post title : Re: Nology Spark Plugs/Coils (Re: fasteddy) | | |
fasteddy wrote:
So Daz, point me to this information on side gaping and what exactly it is (how to)
eddy |
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You just cut the ground electrode back till the center electrode is not being covered by it. I used a dremel. I won't do it on this bike because while everyone said this guy was full of it, someone told me this can damage an engine. However, at that point i'd been running them for thousands of miles w/o any problems, so i kept doing so. just wouldn't do it on this bike for several reasons including the fact each cylinder has 2 plugs, so it's not as likely to benefit. But it's your call. people, especially racers have been doing it for many years so the guy WAS probably full of it. But on a bike that really doesn't need more power (especially if 1700/tors) i see not reason to take the slightest chance on something like that.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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