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| DizzE | | Thor |  |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 06 Nov 2010 - 18:42 Post title : What's a shim bucket? | | | So, I don't quite get this picture of Birdy's. Does the valve on the right have a cap over it?
Is that the bucket? If so, I have been very confused until this point.
Where do the shims go, exactly?
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| davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 06 Nov 2010 - 20:04 Post title : Re: What's a shim bucket? (Re: DizzE) | | | Looking at the picture,the valve is shown on the left and the bucket has been removed.The picture on the right shows the bucket over the valve.The little round shiny piece in the middle of the bucket is the shim which is what you change when doing a valve adjustment. Dave!!!
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| DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 06 Nov 2010 - 22:33 Post title : Re: What's a shim bucket? (Re: davetac1) | | | Thanks dave!! so stay with me here...on the right, the outer collar looking thing is the bucket? And the disk top is
the shim?
How many pieces/parts is the right side different from the left? Sorry folks, I'm all turned around.
Does the lob contact the shim or the bucket?  
Edit
never mind, I found a picture. So, you want to depress the valve enough to get the bucket off the top and clear the lob?
| | Post edited by DizzE on 06 Nov 2010 - 23:01 |
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| ataDude | | Chaac | | | Reg. Date | : | 19/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 527 | | Location | : | Texas, United States |
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| | Posted : 06 Nov 2010 - 22:55 Post title : Re: What's a shim bucket? (Re: DizzE) | | | Permit me, if you will...
DizzE wrote:
Thanks dave!! so stay with me here...on the right, the outer collar looking thing is the bucket? Yes.
And the disk top is the shim? Yes.
How many pieces/parts is the right side different from the left? Two.
Does the lobe contact the shim or the bucket? Shim.
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And, you adjust valve clearance by changing the thickness of the shims.
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| | Post edited by ataDude on 06 Nov 2010 - 22:59 |
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| DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 06 Nov 2010 - 23:07 Post title : Re: What's a shim bucket? (Re: ataDude) | | | But, you mean the shim is under the bucket? The pic I saw was bucket, but turned over, like a cup. In there was a little washer object to go between the bucket and the valve stem. Is that how it works? I have never seen anything but rocker arm setups in auto engines.
This seems like a simple system and probably rugged, less parts, right?
Edit:
Ah, the entire thing is a shim...I still don't get how the bucket holds the shim, in that case. I understand these are used for
valve/lob clearance. So, advancing the induction cam will still hit this side the same. Thanks guys.
| | Post edited by DizzE on 06 Nov 2010 - 23:19 |
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| FTL40 | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 13/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 1,122 | | Location | : | massachusetts, United States |
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| | Posted : 07 Nov 2010 - 14:04 Post title : Re: What's a shim bucket? (Re: DizzE) | | | the shim snaps in the bucket, not sure how ti snaps in but it does. and you must remove the cams to get the shims out, same goes for the smaller twins.
| 2010 tbird 1700 silver (fastest color) BC exhaust, BC airbox removal
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| DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 07 Nov 2010 - 14:16 Post title : Re: What's a shim bucket? (Re: FTL40) | | | So, the shim area sits atop the valve stem and through a hole in the bucket and connects the stem to the lob.
I see, so the bucket is there just to hold the shim in place. The shim takes the wear. Makes sense.
It is so polished in that picture, it's hard to tell.
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| Birdy68 | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 16/07/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,352 | | Location | : | Bad Zurzach, Aargau, Switzerland |
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| | Posted : 07 Nov 2010 - 20:03 Post title : Re: What's a shim bucket? (Re: DizzE) | | | The bucket is there to keep the shim moving in a parallel direction to the valve stem - as the cam rotates around it 'strokes' over the shim. If the shim were simply loose it would rock when the lobe came into contact with the shim.
So the bucket is there to act as a stabilizer kind of thing.
I'll be doing this job (shim clearance and replacement) on my Tiger in the next week or two - so I'll try to photograph things for you. Luckily you DON'T have to remove the cam to replace the shims on the Triple engines.
| Birdy68
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Leave the pork pies for now - get the sausage rolls while they're hot!
 -x-  -x- 
more info at Fuelly.com
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| daz | | Zeus | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 08 Nov 2010 - 00:57 Post title : Re: What's a shim bucket? (Re: Birdy68) | | | See, i don't get this. If they can make the tiger like that, why not the Tbird. Even my speedmaster was less trouble. You had to remove the cams, but it didn't require messing with the chain because the chain drove some gears which in turn drove the cams. So all you had to do is remove the cams and then just make sure the marks lined yp on the gears when you reinstalled them. Even that tho was a considerable job ad real PITA, so no way on earth i was going to do it myself on the Tbird. Thats what drove me to get the BB kit tho. Had i been able to adjust the valves myself i would have and then wouldn't have had the incentive to get the BB because i looked at it this way....if i had to spend $600 for the 12k service since i wasn't about to do the valves myself, i figured i could BB it and the $600 would go towards the BB instead. If the cams were gear driven i'd have possibly done it myself and never gotten the BB. By the way Dizze, just in case you didn't know, you can usually use shims from other brands instead of triumph so you can often get them locally and cheaper. I got the ones i used on my speedy at a honda shop used, and they were 1/2 or less than getting them from triumph. Plus this way you don't have to tear the bike down and see what sizes you need then send away, requiring you to either put everything back together or having the bie down while waiting for your shipment. I found that no triumph dealers had or were willing to sell me some. so getting them at a honda dealer meant i could tear it down, see what sizes i'd need, go to honda down the street a couple miles and get them and finish the job that day. I would suggest you let the dealer do it tho unless you're very familiar with this sort of work. it can be a real bitch and tedious as hell.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 08 Nov 2010 - 13:55 Post title : Re: What's a shim bucket? (Re: daz) | | | Ah, good point about getting ahold of the correct shiim. The good news it's a very sturdy valve train. Few moving parts.
Low vibration and I suppose you can easily measure the clearance without taking anything off but the cam covers;.
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| davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 09 Nov 2010 - 02:58 Post title : Re: What's a shim bucket? (Re: DizzE) | | | The bucket just sets down over the top of the valve and its spring.The shim sets inside the top of the bucket which has a round indent machined the correct size [25MM] in the top of it to hold the shim in place, and keep it from sliding out of it.Its function is to protect the cam lobe from deteriorating when making contact with the valve,while allowing the cam lobe to move smoothly across it during its rotation cycle.I think I said that correctly!! lol Suction from the oil is what holds it inside the bucket.I've changed em on other machines and had to use a small screw driver,inserted under the shim thru the little slot cut into the side of the bucket,gentley prying up on the shim and then using a magnet with a small head on it to extract it.
As far as removing the cams to get the shims out,I'm still not convinced that the cams have to be removed.However, I haven't tried it yet either.But after studying the pictures,I see no reason why it can't be done using the method I suggested elsewhere's on this site.Dave!!!
| | Post edited by davetac1 on 09 Nov 2010 - 03:02 |
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| Birdy68 | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/07/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,352 | | Location | : | Bad Zurzach, Aargau, Switzerland |
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| | Posted : 09 Nov 2010 - 07:29 Post title : Re: What's a shim bucket? (Re: davetac1) | | | davetac1 wrote:
I've changed em on other machines and had to use a small screw driver,inserted under the shim thru the little slot cut into the side of the bucket,gentley prying up on the shim and then using a magnet with a small head on it to extract it. |
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I'll be at this stage tonight on my Tiger:
Have to replace three Intake shims...
| Birdy68
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
Leave the pork pies for now - get the sausage rolls while they're hot!
-x- -x-
more info at Fuelly.com
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| DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 09 Nov 2010 - 13:06 Post title : Re: What's a shim bucket? (Re: davetac1) | | | Magnet fishing? I'm pretty sure that by the time I fished one, I would just take the cam out, before I tried another. 
Mr. Clutzy isn't good at this type of dexterity.
Also, I see a bit of difference. The Tiger has the slot uncovered. But, the Thunderbird....I don't see a slot or perhaps there is
one, but the casting is in the way.
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| davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 09 Nov 2010 - 14:51 Post title : Re: What's a shim bucket? (Re: DizzE) | | | With the valve in its closed position [cam lobe facing up]the bucket will now rotate VERY EASILY so you can position it so as to gain access to the shim.Then you can use the small screw driver to GENTLY lift the edge of the shim enough to break it free from the oil suction and then use the magnet. Ca Pishe??? lol Dave!!!
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| DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 09 Nov 2010 - 15:57 Post title : Re: What's a shim bucket? (Re: davetac1) | | | Yeah, I get it. Just seems there is almost no room to get a magnet in on the T-bird..
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| davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 09 Nov 2010 - 16:53 Post title : Re: What's a shim bucket? (Re: DizzE) | | | The small telescoping magnet,which is what I carry in my shirt pocket,only has a small thin 1/4 inch magnet on the end of it.All ya gotta do is make contact on any part of the shim with it and it should come right out.Dave!!!
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