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Topic : TuneBoy for iPhone
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 Gonzo 
Chaac
Reg. Date : 01/05/2010
Posts : 643
Location : Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted : 15 Sep 2010 - 05:39   Post title : TuneBoy for iPhone
 
Thanks to a couple of others on this board, we seem to be delving into new territory in terms of connecting your iPhone to the ECU to get readings out of it, like AFR, temp, power, torque and the like.

OK, imagine this:

You use TuneBoy to create a few Tunes, and load them into TuneBoy for iPhone.

You connect your iPhone to your Bird and run some diagnostic software that gives you a reading of your power, torque or AFR or whatever. You get to your favourite test strip and do a run. Using the diag software, it also gives you your 0-60mph time as well as a log of your AFR readings etc. Hmm...Looks a little lean up high - lucky I made a Tune in anticipation of that.

You feel you could get a little more out of it, so you start up TuneBoy for iPhone and load in your "Alt Tune 2". Two minutes later your ECU is flashed and you are ready to rock on your next test run. Start up your diag software and go again.

What are your thoughts?

I'm thinking this would only be possible with a wired ODB-ii to iPhone connection, not the wireless or BlueShmooth options. I have asked the makers of goPOINT wired option if this is technically possible. If they come back with an affirmative, I'll be talking to Wayne at TuneBoy. :)

Gonzo

 
--
Red XIII
Mods: locking gas cap; ISO-Wings for passenger; engine guards; dresser bars; Arlen Ness LED licence plate holder, rego tube and coloured number plate; long TORs; Pilot highway pegs w/ Magnum clamps; windshield; lower deflectors (customised); ISO grips; HD switch-block; Hardstreet Slimbags (colour matched); Corbin dual tour seat; Luggage rack & bag.
Todo: Various chroming of hand-made parts, Convex mirrors
Wishlist: Mini-ape handlebars, Hard clearcoat over tank
 Author 
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 Druid 
Jupiter
Reg. Date : 14/10/2009
Posts : 1,359
Location :  United Kingdom
Posted : 15 Sep 2010 - 10:34   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: Gonzo)
 
Jeez dont start all that IPhone worship on here please. Apple is the devil .

So to take the other side . No it wouldnt be cool it would be damn right sick to have anything made by that company attached to my bike. After the first time it will lock me out of my bike and charge me to start it every time. Only 2 other users will be allowed to sit on it and if I wanted to take someone else I would have to de autherise my wife or daughter. Not only that but it will only allow me to add certain extras aproved by Apple to my bike and only buy them from the TBTune shop.

God I hate that company.

 
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery - W.Churchill
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 Birdy68 
Thor
Reg. Date : 16/07/2009
Posts : 3,352
Location : Bad Zurzach, Aargau, Switzerland
Posted : 15 Sep 2010 - 11:22   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: Druid)
 
Druid wrote:
... God I hate that company.


Oooo - I have to say something!

OK - I'm taking this over to the Off-Topic area for those who are interested


 
Birdy68
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
Leave the pork pies for now - get the sausage rolls while they're hot!

-x- -x-
more info at Fuelly.com
 Author 
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 Thatch 
Thor
Reg. Date : 24/06/2009
Posts : 3,655
Location : Savannah, GA, United States
Posted : 15 Sep 2010 - 11:52   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: Druid)
 
Great post Druid. I'll save my comments on that for the other thread though....

I will say that a mobile OS version of a tuneboy type program would be awesome. It would certainly be more than possible to do as proved by the program Lee posted for android called 'Torque'. You'd just have to add the tune manipulation side of things which would be a relatively simple to do. (not that building any reliable software is ever 'simple' of course) I would say that a Bluetooth connection would really be almost mandatory if you're really going to do this. Having a mobile tuner device that you can drop in your pocket but having to wrangle a cord in the process is a bit self defeating.

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 Gonzo 
Chaac
Reg. Date : 01/05/2010
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Location : Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted : 15 Sep 2010 - 12:02   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: Druid)
 
Don't worry, I feel the same about Microsoft. But for better reasons that you hate Apple.

If you were a musician, that actually wanted to be paid for the music you create and people want to listen to, then you too would love Apple.

But if you wanted a Microsoft device connected to the bike... Well then it would cut out and die just as you were overtaking a big semi-trailer... SPLAT!!! :)

God I hate Microsoft... Except for their mice... They make good mice. :)

Gonzo

 
--
Red XIII
Mods: locking gas cap; ISO-Wings for passenger; engine guards; dresser bars; Arlen Ness LED licence plate holder, rego tube and coloured number plate; long TORs; Pilot highway pegs w/ Magnum clamps; windshield; lower deflectors (customised); ISO grips; HD switch-block; Hardstreet Slimbags (colour matched); Corbin dual tour seat; Luggage rack & bag.
Todo: Various chroming of hand-made parts, Convex mirrors
Wishlist: Mini-ape handlebars, Hard clearcoat over tank
 Author 
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 Birdy68 
Thor
Reg. Date : 16/07/2009
Posts : 3,352
Location : Bad Zurzach, Aargau, Switzerland
Posted : 15 Sep 2010 - 14:09   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: Thatch)
 

Thatch wrote:
.... I would say that a Bluetooth connection would really be almost mandatory if you're really going to do this. Having a mobile tuner device that you can drop in your pocket but having to wrangle a cord in the process is a bit self defeating.


You could also go WiFi - BUT that needs 100% power from what I read when I was researching all this stuff.



 
Birdy68
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
Leave the pork pies for now - get the sausage rolls while they're hot!

-x- -x-
more info at Fuelly.com
 Author 
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 Gonzo 
Chaac
Reg. Date : 01/05/2010
Posts : 643
Location : Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted : 16 Sep 2010 - 05:42   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: Birdy68)
 

Birdy68 wrote:

Thatch wrote:
.... I would say that a Bluetooth connection would really be almost mandatory if you're really going to do this. Having a mobile tuner device that you can drop in your pocket but having to wrangle a cord in the process is a bit self defeating.


You could also go WiFi - BUT that needs 100% power from what I read when I was researching all this stuff.



See I reckon that those WiFi of Bluetooth would be a transmit only option. As in, they would read data off the CAN bus and transmit it to the ether for the mobile device to pick up and read/display. I really don't think there would be an option for writing to the ECU via those options.

And even if there was, would you trust that the stream of data would not get interrupted or maybe mangled on the way to the ECU?

Well GoPoint have come back to me with the following answers:

>Our cable supports CAN 11-bit/29-bit 250k/500k communications, so it may be compatible. Software-wise, no one has written an App that interfaces to the Triumph

That last bit about the software has me confused as surely all they are doing is reading the data on the bus.

>Q: Is it theoretically possible, assuming the software knows what it is doing to get the ECU into programming mode and all that, to transmit data TO the ECU, rather than just reading data FROM the ECU?
>A: Technically ??? yes, as long as the cable is not required to change any voltages on the communications pins or provide a voltage above the normal CAN communications levels.

So based on all this, I'll be ordering one of the GoPoint cables and letting y'all know if I can get anything out of it. :)

Gonzo

 
--
Red XIII
Mods: locking gas cap; ISO-Wings for passenger; engine guards; dresser bars; Arlen Ness LED licence plate holder, rego tube and coloured number plate; long TORs; Pilot highway pegs w/ Magnum clamps; windshield; lower deflectors (customised); ISO grips; HD switch-block; Hardstreet Slimbags (colour matched); Corbin dual tour seat; Luggage rack & bag.
Todo: Various chroming of hand-made parts, Convex mirrors
Wishlist: Mini-ape handlebars, Hard clearcoat over tank
 Author 
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 Thatch 
Thor
Reg. Date : 24/06/2009
Posts : 3,655
Location : Savannah, GA, United States
Posted : 16 Sep 2010 - 06:20   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: Gonzo)
 

Gonzo wrote:

would you trust that the stream of data would not get interrupted or maybe mangled on the way to the ECU?



Oh sure, I'd trust it. The protocols for sending information over these connections is such that you basically have it broken into packets with header information on each packet that says what it's sending, what part of the 'send' that packet is and when it's complete. It's always checking to make sure that the complete transfer happened and if it didn't it can ask to send it again or just resend itself till it gets the whole packet. Some things like voice will just drop those packets in an effort to keep things streaming but on a file transfer it can be made to make sure the whole transfer happens.


Anywho, at this point it's moot, I'd just like to see a full tuner on a mobile device first, then I'll moan about how it's connected.

 Author 
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 SeanS 
Jupiter
Reg. Date : 17/10/2009
Posts : 1,179
Location : Matlock, Derbyshire UK, United Kingdom
Posted : 16 Sep 2010 - 06:27   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: Gonzo)
 

Gonzo wrote:

But if you wanted a Microsoft device connected to the bike... Well then it would cut out and die just as you were overtaking a big semi-trailer... SPLAT!!! :)

God I hate Microsoft... Except for their mice... They make good mice. :)

Gonzo


Agree.. If Microsoft made Motorbikes we'd be sitting upon 3,000cc beasts that would take 10 minutes to start and at the first sign of a hill we'd have to peddle.



 
If only I had a bigger garage
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 DizzE 
Thor
Reg. Date : 12/07/2010
Posts : 3,141
Location : Sunnyvale, CA, United States
Posted : 16 Sep 2010 - 13:13   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: SeanS)
 
SeanS wrote:


Gonzo wrote:

But if you wanted a Microsoft device connected to the bike... Well then it would cut out and die just as you were overtaking a big semi-trailer... SPLAT!!! :)

God I hate Microsoft... Except for their mice... They make good mice. :)

Gonzo


Agree.. If Microsoft made Motorbikes we'd be sitting upon 3,000cc beasts that would take 10 minutes to start and at the first sign of a hill we'd have to peddle.



And you'd have to plug it in every night for SW upgrades of the million things you can add to the
bike, but don't want to 'cause you already have to peddle at the hills.

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 Thatch 
Thor
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Location : Savannah, GA, United States
Posted : 16 Sep 2010 - 13:20   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: SeanS)
 

SeanS wrote:


Agree.. If Microsoft made Motorbikes ...





Agreed, but it would work on any road you put it on. You could have one custom built for cheaper than 'off the rack'. You could mix and match engines, seats, tires and exhaust at will. They'd be cheap enough that you could have one for every mood and they wouldn't charge you 99?? every time you wanted to take a ride on a new road.

Just sayin'



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 DizzE 
Thor
Reg. Date : 12/07/2010
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Location : Sunnyvale, CA, United States
Posted : 16 Sep 2010 - 21:38   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: Thatch)
 

Thatch wrote:

SeanS wrote:


Agree.. If Microsoft made Motorbikes ...





Agreed, but it would work on any road you put it on. You could have one custom built for cheaper than 'off the rack'. You could mix and match engines, seats, tires and exhaust at will. They'd be cheap enough that you could have one for every mood and they wouldn't charge you 99?? every time you wanted to take a ride on a new road.

Just sayin'



Touche' You elegantly put the entire thing in perspective. Even if MS-Triumph and Google-Toyota ultimately have a corporate
shooting war on the moon, at least we would have good rides.

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 MotorMac 
Jupiter
Reg. Date : 29/08/2010
Posts : 1,848
Location : Nor Cal, United States
Posted : 02 Oct 2010 - 17:08   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: Gonzo)
 
I went back to the first vendor I found, Palmer Engineering's DashCommand (about $50 US), and will connect/test with the GoLink cable, maybe video the display, soon as I get a chance. DashCommand looks like it has a whole battery of settings, logging, even uses the iPod's (iPhone's) accelerometer to measure G-forces in turns (so you'll know how many Gs it took to throw you from the saddle ;-) If your device is GPS equipped, it uses that for track functions, too. GoLink cable is stout, long enough and nicely made, the DashCommand app is ready to go and looks sophisticated enough to be truly informative - even if it isn't capable of doing TuneBoy-type mods.

As for the blubbering/popping on decel, credit where credit is due: Here in CA we have mandated fuel additives which decrease mileage and change combustion (was MTBE, now alcohol, next = ?). That has to be a factor. My trusty old T140V blubbered until I "adjusted" idle air flow on one carb, acted much like the T-Bird does now (and you could never get enough air down the carbs at high-end, just like the airbox mods some are trying here). Very familiar Triumph characteristics. The short Triumph mufflers are still too dang quiet to hear much exhaust, but I can always hear the T-Bird blubber and pop when I close throttle at 3K and coast downhill to 2K (regardless of gear). Tried corking the secondary air circuit, but not much change. Maybe I'll try it again. Meanwhile, looking forward to interrogating my motor via bar-moiunted iPod and DashCommand. We'll see, eh?


 

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 MotorMac 
Jupiter
Reg. Date : 29/08/2010
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Posted : 03 Oct 2010 - 15:32   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: MotorMac)
 
Well Gonzo, DC is about useless, isn't it?
Haven't found the trick yet - has a port to the GoLink cable, but no luck. You were right. :-(

Sent email to Rev as you suggested, one to Palmer. And will try again, still looking. Still have the other apps, gotta be a way.
Wish I could _see_ a TuneBoy in action..... better yet, maybe Triumph could step up to the plate? I mean, what's the big secret anyway? When did a tuneup become criminal activity? Sheesh, whatta pain!

 

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 DizzE 
Thor
Reg. Date : 12/07/2010
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Posted : 04 Oct 2010 - 15:55   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: MotorMac)
 

MotorMac wrote:

Well Gonzo, DC is about useless, isn't it?
Haven't found the trick yet - has a port to the GoLink cable, but no luck. You were right. :-(

Sent email to Rev as you suggested, one to Palmer. And will try again, still looking. Still have the other apps, gotta be a way.
Wish I could _see_ a TuneBoy in action..... better yet, maybe Triumph could step up to the plate? I mean, what's the big secret anyway? When did a tuneup become criminal activity? Sheesh, whatta pain!


EPA and state laws, with the WTO. As to when..if you were in SF bay or worse LA basin in the '70...well something had to be done.
And stupid laws spread generally is what we pay to save ourselves from tyranny, supposedly.

I look at it this way. They haven't banned us from the roads, yet. The way they trade votes, anything could happen ..MTBE even.
All the cops around here have loud pipes, so they don't care.

But, I think we will get the no-mod car rules extened to motorbikes, just as the pollution laws cover us un-necessarily.
I read that there are only about 8 million operating motorcycles registered in the WORLD. We're not part of the problem
but we are part of the "solution" in many ways, like it or not.

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 Gonzo 
Chaac
Reg. Date : 01/05/2010
Posts : 643
Location : Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted : 08 Oct 2010 - 05:38   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: MotorMac)
 

MotorMac wrote:

Well Gonzo, DC is about useless, isn't it?
Haven't found the trick yet - has a port to the GoLink cable, but no luck. You were right. :-(

Sent email to Rev as you suggested, one to Palmer. And will try again, still looking. Still have the other apps, gotta be a way.
Wish I could _see_ a TuneBoy in action..... better yet, maybe Triumph could step up to the plate? I mean, what's the big secret anyway? When did a tuneup become criminal activity? Sheesh, whatta pain!


Any luck with getting any help out of DC? I sent support@ an email with my log file with no reply whatsoever. Not impressed. :(

How about Rev?

Gonzo

 
--
Red XIII
Mods: locking gas cap; ISO-Wings for passenger; engine guards; dresser bars; Arlen Ness LED licence plate holder, rego tube and coloured number plate; long TORs; Pilot highway pegs w/ Magnum clamps; windshield; lower deflectors (customised); ISO grips; HD switch-block; Hardstreet Slimbags (colour matched); Corbin dual tour seat; Luggage rack & bag.
Todo: Various chroming of hand-made parts, Convex mirrors
Wishlist: Mini-ape handlebars, Hard clearcoat over tank
 Author 
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 MotorMac 
Jupiter
Reg. Date : 29/08/2010
Posts : 1,848
Location : Nor Cal, United States
Posted : 10 Oct 2010 - 04:32   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: Gonzo)
 
Sorry to be taking so long. Life has become waaaay too complex these days!

Yes, Palmer (DashCommand) replied almost immediately.
Since doing all sorts of updates to my gen2 iPod (sound familiar MS fans? ;-), DC shows signs of life. At least it attempts to connect before closing the OBD2 port. Unknown if DC is allowing iPod/iPhone to charge. And my ol' iPod is not GPS-equipped, so I miss GPS functions.

The GoLink app functions perfectly (and quickly, I might add). Nice window into temps, rpms, O2 sensors, trouble codes, etc.
No tuning capability (which is what I've gone begging for), but it functions as advertised. Of the three apps, this one is good to go - as far as it goes, anyway. As for the cable - a 90-degree bend at iPod/iPhone plug might be nice. And - yes - wireless would be _much_ easier/better than dealing with a cable - long as batteries hold out.

Rev..... I have the "lite" version, which is essentially a come-on for Rev2 which I haven't tried yet.

BTW: Wifi (aka 802.11g and 802.11n or "Airport" in Applespeak) is the same 2-way standard your wireless networks use. Plug wifi into your OBD2 port and you're hooking your T-Bird up to your network. Anything/everything is possible (within about 150 yards). It's only a matter of time - and who gets there first.




 

Post edited by MotorMac on 10 Oct 2010 - 04:32
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 Gonzo 
Chaac
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Location : Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted : 12 Oct 2010 - 02:31   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: MotorMac)
 

MotorMac wrote:

Sorry to be taking so long. Life has become waaaay too complex these days!

Yes, Palmer (DashCommand) replied almost immediately.
Since doing all sorts of updates to my gen2 iPod (sound familiar MS fans? ;-), DC shows signs of life. At least it attempts to connect before closing the OBD2 port. Unknown if DC is allowing iPod/iPhone to charge. And my ol' iPod is not GPS-equipped, so I miss GPS functions.


DashCommand shows kind of signs of life, but still not actually getting any readings out of it, and at least you got a reply from them. Are they working on an update to fix it?

Yup, life is always too busy if you ask me. :(

Gonzo

 
--
Red XIII
Mods: locking gas cap; ISO-Wings for passenger; engine guards; dresser bars; Arlen Ness LED licence plate holder, rego tube and coloured number plate; long TORs; Pilot highway pegs w/ Magnum clamps; windshield; lower deflectors (customised); ISO grips; HD switch-block; Hardstreet Slimbags (colour matched); Corbin dual tour seat; Luggage rack & bag.
Todo: Various chroming of hand-made parts, Convex mirrors
Wishlist: Mini-ape handlebars, Hard clearcoat over tank
 Author 
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 DizzE 
Thor
Reg. Date : 12/07/2010
Posts : 3,141
Location : Sunnyvale, CA, United States
Posted : 12 Oct 2010 - 14:56   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: Gonzo)
 
well, I got an iPhone4. Have you seen any torque apps or anything that would let you measure some improvement for the tinkering
we do and plan?

 Author 
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 Gonzo 
Chaac
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Posted : 19 Oct 2010 - 02:15   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: DizzE)
 
Well, I wouldn't go the way I have to date.

That is, don't get the cable or Dash Command.

If I had my time over, I would get the Kiwi Wifi thing, and try Rev. Not that I am 100% sure that Rev would work, but it looks more slick, they have a light version you can try, and their website just seems more professional.

So far, DashCommand does not work at all, and their Tech Support has been non-existant to date. So I'm pissed at them.

Gonzo

 
--
Red XIII
Mods: locking gas cap; ISO-Wings for passenger; engine guards; dresser bars; Arlen Ness LED licence plate holder, rego tube and coloured number plate; long TORs; Pilot highway pegs w/ Magnum clamps; windshield; lower deflectors (customised); ISO grips; HD switch-block; Hardstreet Slimbags (colour matched); Corbin dual tour seat; Luggage rack & bag.
Todo: Various chroming of hand-made parts, Convex mirrors
Wishlist: Mini-ape handlebars, Hard clearcoat over tank
 Author 
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 MotorMac 
Jupiter
Reg. Date : 29/08/2010
Posts : 1,848
Location : Nor Cal, United States
Posted : 25 Oct 2010 - 15:57   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: Gonzo)
 
DizzE: The GoLink cable comes with its own app which works perfectly (at least for me). It's pretty cool and will have you wanting to mount your iPhone on your bars - cable is right length, plenty of mounts to choose from. It's certainly informative. Link
As for Dash Command: I got an RPM reading "stuck" in its readout that leads me to believe it collected at least some data before disconnecting. They want me to enable debugging and email DC's tech log to 'em, but I just haven't had time to mess with it. (We're all beta testers these days, huh.)

The cable/mount requirement will have you wanting a wireless option, true - especially when wireless could easily connect to a computer rather than a handheld device. All the same, GoLink could be quite useful for measuring/monitoring changes.


 

Post edited by MotorMac on 25 Oct 2010 - 15:58
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 DizzE 
Thor
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Posted : 25 Oct 2010 - 17:41   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: MotorMac)
 
Yep...beta testing. I'll look at that, thanks.

EDIT: Go Link is one with Air Mass and Ox voltage. Too bad about DashCom. If you could log all that
sensor data....

On GoLink, is quick scan a real time, dynamic monitor or a snapshot? If you can see Air Mass/per min
and Ox sensor voltage real time, you can get some good correlations to the fuel map under load.

Post edited by DizzE on 25 Oct 2010 - 19:59
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 MotorMac 
Jupiter
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Posted : 26 Oct 2010 - 18:58   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: DizzE)
 
GoLink does real-time monitoring. Slight time lag (as you might expect) but not bad.

 

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 DizzE 
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Posted : 26 Oct 2010 - 22:27   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: MotorMac)
 
Are you logging? I have a lot of memory.

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 MotorMac 
Jupiter
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Posted : 01 Nov 2010 - 21:04   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: DizzE)
 
Hi DizzE - again, apologies for delayed response.
Haven't had much time to ride, let alone mess with GoLink et al, and I'm more concerned with changing handlebars and sissy bar at the moment than performance since the T-Bird is running so well (aside from blubbering) - but that's all beside the point here, huh.

GoLink works with its website where logs are stored and trouble codes can be researched, here: Link Personally, I would rather have everything stored on the iPhone/iPod itself and eliminate need for 'net access, but I see no option for that. (As you say, storage space is no problem.) So, no, I'm not logging - yet. And I need to get back to DC and Rev, too. Hoping things will slow down a bit around here soon..... Workin' on it!


 

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 DizzE 
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Posted : 01 Nov 2010 - 21:16   Post title : Re: TuneBoy for iPhone (Re: MotorMac)
 
I see. On the website...well, thanks for getting back. I'm going to log some horsepower runs with a gMeter. Should give some
kind of before/after results.