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| sandrower | | Set |  | | Reg. Date | : | 16/01/2018 | | Posts | : | 7 | | Location | : | Sweden |
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| | Posted : 16 Jan 2018 - 20:11 Post title : 3rd party speedometer | | | Hello everyone,
I am new to this forum and I have a question, hoping anyone could help me. I own a Thunderbird 2010 1600 ABS that I recently equipped with 12" Ape hangers. However I recently also purchased a spare fuel tank from a 2011 Tbird. My plan is to modify it into a peanut tank at a workshop and also removing the whole speedometer onto the handlebar, kind of like the Bonneville Bobber.
I found this german company MotoGadget that makes these stand-alone speedometers and my question is like this:
What problems could I encounter by installing a third party speedometer with for example ABS sensors and other signals and how difficult is this to do?
Many regards.
/Alex
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| VABird | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 28/09/2014 | | Posts | : | 1,373 | | Location | : | BEDFORD, Virginia, United States |
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| | Posted : 16 Jan 2018 - 20:27 Post title : Re: 3rd party speedometer (Re: sandrower) | | | Alex, Welcome to the forum & the T-Bird fold.
The speedometer cluster is an intergral part of the ECU and cannot be swapped by simply "remove and replace".
There are many other functions are in the speedo:
Tach,
warning lights,
clock
miles to empty
fuel gauge
They are ALL connected to the ECU.
IF you are a computer whiz & electronics guru, you may be able to overcome all this, but not us mere mortals.
| The ride may be fun, but in the Great Scheme of things, it really is about the destination! John 3:16 
| | Post edited by VABird on 16 Jan 2018 - 20:27 |
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| sandrower | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/01/2018 | | Posts | : | 7 | | Location | : | Sweden |
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| | Posted : 16 Jan 2018 - 20:36 Post title : Re: 3rd party speedometer (Re: VABird) | | |
VABird wrote:
Alex, Welcome to the forum & the T-Bird fold.
The speedometer cluster is an intergral part of the ECU and cannot be swapped by simply "remove and replace".
There are many other functions are in the speedo:
Tach,
warning lights,
clock
miles to empty
fuel gauge
They are ALL connected to the ECU.
IF you are a computer whiz & electronics guru, you may be able to overcome all this, but not us mere mortals. |
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Thank you for the welcoming and the quick reply.
I read on revzilla.com where I first came across this brand it "will fit your Triumph Thunderbird 2010" so my counter-question is: If the the new speedometer has the same input as the original one, would it not be possible to "remove and replace"? I understand that the cables have different resistance and voltage which could interfere with the signals being transfered from the ECU to the speedo. But lets say we got all that right would it be possible without tweaking to much?
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| VABird | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 28/09/2014 | | Posts | : | 1,373 | | Location | : | BEDFORD, Virginia, United States |
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| | Posted : 16 Jan 2018 - 23:05 Post title : Re: 3rd party speedometer (Re: sandrower) | | | I am not an electronics or computer guy. and I am not familiar with the speedometer you mentioned, so have no opinion on it.
As far as resistance by extending the wiring, I can say it is not an issue to extend the existing wiring by 12" since I am currently in the process of moving the existing stock cluster into a custom fitted fairing. Link
I have made that extension and all seems well, even after a 90 mile ride and several startups in the shop.
I can also say that there are several interested parties here that would love to see a solution to the current location of the speedo, so you would be a superhero here if you solved the problem with a good looking and simple swap. Others have tried with mixed results.
| The ride may be fun, but in the Great Scheme of things, it really is about the destination! John 3:16
| | Post edited by VABird on 16 Jan 2018 - 23:06 |
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| rayglo | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 27/10/2012 | | Posts | : | 1,746 | | Location | : | east brunswick, nj, United States |
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| | Posted : 16 Jan 2018 - 23:26 Post title : Re: 3rd party speedometer (Re: sandrower) | | | If you call Motogadet I don't think you will have a problem. Its expensive change.
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| jimmy74 | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/10/2016 | | Posts | : | 25 | | Location | : | Aplington, Iowa, United States |
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| | Posted : 17 Jan 2018 - 00:17 Post title : Re: 3rd party speedometer (Re: rayglo) | | | If I remember correctly, the last time I had the cluster off of my bike. I don't think I could even start it without the cluster being plugged in. So there may be some security features in play there. Probably the best work around would be to extend the harness (as VA bird did) and hide the cluster somewhere on the bike. Then you are open to add any speedo you like. On the automotive side I've seen this when customers want an aftermaket radio, but the factory one is too integrated to the cars computer system to just remove it. So we extend the harness by 8-10 ft and zip tie the factory unit inside the trunk.
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| sandrower | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/01/2018 | | Posts | : | 7 | | Location | : | Sweden |
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| | Posted : 17 Jan 2018 - 07:24 Post title : Re: 3rd party speedometer (Re: jimmy74) | | | @VAbird: That is a really nice bike you have with the fairing project. But I'm inclined to go with Jimmy74's solution by extending the harness into making the bike believe it is the existing speedo at play and not the newly bought.
But don't get me wrong, I don't think that this will be a walk in the park but I do know I will have a very unique bike.
Question is: Should I gamble and build the tank as a peanut tank and remove the whole instrument panel on top, with the hopes the speedo will work, or should I just squeeze the tank together, make it higher and leave the instrument panel intact?
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| hairdoo | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 11/08/2013 | | Posts | : | 159 | | Location | : | haymarket, va, United States |
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| | Posted : 17 Jan 2018 - 10:57 Post title : Re: 3rd party speedometer (Re: sandrower) | | | Somebody on here took the stock speedo and turned it into a standalone, bar-mounted speedo (same unit with a new custom fabricated housing?) - seems like that might be a third option....
Found it - it was alaind, back a while - this isn't the original thread, which I'm having trouble finding - but halfway along this thread he posts and shows a pic and some info on what he did.
Link
edit - found this in how-to: Link
| | Post edited by hairdoo on 17 Jan 2018 - 13:05 |
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| Linkdog | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 10/02/2011 | | Posts | : | 2,949 | | Location | : | Groveland, FL., United States |
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| | Posted : 17 Jan 2018 - 16:56 Post title : Re: 3rd party speedometer (Re: hairdoo) | | | I believe the original thread was " Coffee T bird " by AlainD .
| Never drink from a cow with one udder! 2010 1600 Blue&White ( of course ) Long TORS and HP filter.
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| hairdoo | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 11/08/2013 | | Posts | : | 159 | | Location | : | haymarket, va, United States |
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| | Posted : 17 Jan 2018 - 18:14 Post title : Re: 3rd party speedometer (Re: Linkdog) | |
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| sandrower | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/01/2018 | | Posts | : | 7 | | Location | : | Sweden |
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| | Posted : 17 Jan 2018 - 18:34 Post title : Re: 3rd party speedometer (Re: Linkdog) | | | @Linkdog:
That was also an option of mine though I find the speedometer a bit to big. I am in contact with the developer of Motogadgets chronoclassic speedo. Does anyone know if the Triumph Thunderbird 2010 has a CANbus system? If I'm not mistaken I think it does not, as it was possible to lenghten all the electrical wires to my ape handlebar.
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| VABird | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 28/09/2014 | | Posts | : | 1,373 | | Location | : | BEDFORD, Virginia, United States |
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| | Posted : 17 Jan 2018 - 21:51 Post title : Re: 3rd party speedometer (Re: sandrower) | | | | sandrower wrote: ......... Question is: Should I gamble and build the tank as a peanut tank and remove the whole instrument panel on top, with the hopes the speedo will work, or should I just squeeze the tank together, make it higher and leave the instrument panel intact? |
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Unless "Money is no object...", I suggest taking it in small steps with the lowest $$ output & your highest priority first. I think the tank is no big risk as long as you maintain fuel gauge and pump connections... again, all connected to the ECU. If the entire project rests on the success of the speedometer relocation (as mine did for me) then do that first and be sure it succeeds before spending more money on the peripheral items. I built up the wiring harness extention first and ran it with cluster in the stock location for about 90 miles before cutting into the fairing.
For me, I am retarted enough concerning electronics that I did not risk changing anything in that regard except extend the harness to the speedometer cluster. All the gauges are connected independent of the ECU and other sensors. If electronics & computer wizardry is your game, then you may be able to work some magic there and make anything work.
My biggest rule is "Don't do anything that cannot be undone". When it comes time to sell, most buyers do not want our ideas no matter how cool we think they are.
But that's just me.
| The ride may be fun, but in the Great Scheme of things, it really is about the destination! John 3:16
| | Post edited by VABird on 17 Jan 2018 - 21:53 |
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| Linkdog | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 10/02/2011 | | Posts | : | 2,949 | | Location | : | Groveland, FL., United States |
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| | Posted : 17 Jan 2018 - 23:07 Post title : Re: 3rd party speedometer (Re: sandrower) | | |
sandrower wrote:
@Linkdog:
That was also an option of mine though I find the speedometer a bit to big. I am in contact with the developer of Motogadgets chronoclassic speedo. Does anyone know if the Triumph Thunderbird 2010 has a CANbus system? If I'm not mistaken I think it does not, as it was possible to lenghten all the electrical wires to my ape handlebar. |
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I agree the stock speedo is to big to anywhere by itself except the tank or built into a fairing. After these bikes came out there was a lot of chatter about moving the speedo to the bars mostly from the guys across the pond that wear full face helmets. I'm not sure of their outcome because of the same issues you are faceing now.
| Never drink from a cow with one udder! 2010 1600 Blue&White ( of course ) Long TORS and HP filter.
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| rayglo | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 27/10/2012 | | Posts | : | 1,746 | | Location | : | east brunswick, nj, United States |
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| | Posted : 17 Jan 2018 - 23:38 Post title : Re: 3rd party speedometer (Re: sandrower) | | | I cannot profess I know, but aren't all modern vehicles rely on CANBUS since there is a ECU.
Gathering info and determining what is more a priority with the ECU. And I do think Motogadet
Has a interface that is compatible with t birds but you need to ask questions, and then determine if it will work for you and your bike
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| sandrower | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/01/2018 | | Posts | : | 7 | | Location | : | Sweden |
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| | Posted : 18 Jan 2018 - 04:43 Post title : Re: 3rd party speedometer (Re: rayglo) | | |
rayglo wrote:
I cannot profess I know, but aren't all modern vehicles rely on CANBUS since there is a ECU.
Gathering info and determining what is more a priority with the ECU. And I do think Motogadet
Has a interface that is compatible with t birds but you need to ask questions, and then determine if it will work for you and your bike |
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If I remember correctly I think that only models with 2 cylinders from 2011 and later has a CANbus system, atleast to that degree that the motorcycle doesn't start when tampered with the speedo and the same for 3 cylinder engines from 2007 and beyond. For Triumph engines that is. Japanese engines probably had it earlier, but as I said, I cannot swear on the facts.
But the gentleman from Motogadget is looking in on this for me and wether I need the CANbus "fooling" system or not.
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| fab | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 2,515 | | Location | : | wyong, nsw, Australia |
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| | Posted : 18 Jan 2018 - 05:28 Post title : Re: 3rd party speedometer (Re: sandrower) | | |
sandrower wrote:
rayglo wrote:
I cannot profess I know, but aren't all modern vehicles rely on CANBUS since there is a ECU.
Gathering info and determining what is more a priority with the ECU. And I do think Motogadet
Has a interface that is compatible with t birds but you need to ask questions, and then determine if it will work for you and your bike |
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If I remember correctly I think that only models with 2 cylinders from 2011 and later has a CANbus system, atleast to that degree that the motorcycle doesn't start when tampered with the speedo and the same for 3 cylinder engines from 2007 and beyond. For Triumph engines that is. Japanese engines probably had it earlier, but as I said, I cannot swear on the facts.
But the gentleman from Motogadget is looking in on this for me and wether I need the CANbus "fooling" system or not.
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ALL tbirds are a canbus system mine is a 09 and it is canbus
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Remember, soft cocks hang around all life long, hard ones come and go
ahh f**k im deep
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| sandrower | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/01/2018 | | Posts | : | 7 | | Location | : | Sweden |
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| | Posted : 18 Jan 2018 - 06:17 Post title : Re: 3rd party speedometer (Re: fab) | | |
fab wrote:
sandrower wrote:
rayglo wrote:
I cannot profess I know, but aren't all modern vehicles rely on CANBUS since there is a ECU.
Gathering info and determining what is more a priority with the ECU. And I do think Motogadet
Has a interface that is compatible with t birds but you need to ask questions, and then determine if it will work for you and your bike |
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If I remember correctly I think that only models with 2 cylinders from 2011 and later has a CANbus system, atleast to that degree that the motorcycle doesn't start when tampered with the speedo and the same for 3 cylinder engines from 2007 and beyond. For Triumph engines that is. Japanese engines probably had it earlier, but as I said, I cannot swear on the facts.
But the gentleman from Motogadget is looking in on this for me and wether I need the CANbus "fooling" system or not.
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ALL tbirds are a canbus system mine is a 09 and it is canbus |
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Do you know where I could find the facts for that? Not that I mistrust you more that I have something to show the technichans at Motogadget for my project.
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| Leethal | | Zeus | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,491 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 18 Jan 2018 - 06:44 Post title : Re: 3rd party speedometer (Re: sandrower) | | | The service manual has wiring diagrams, abs and non abs, all the sensor (except oil and maybe water) circuits can be traced back to the ECM from memory.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it 
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| sandrower | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/01/2018 | | Posts | : | 7 | | Location | : | Sweden |
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| | Posted : 18 Jan 2018 - 14:35 Post title : Re: 3rd party speedometer (Re: sandrower) | | |
sandrower wrote:
fab wrote:
sandrower wrote:
rayglo wrote:
I cannot profess I know, but aren't all modern vehicles rely on CANBUS since there is a ECU.
Gathering info and determining what is more a priority with the ECU. And I do think Motogadet
Has a interface that is compatible with t birds but you need to ask questions, and then determine if it will work for you and your bike |
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If I remember correctly I think that only models with 2 cylinders from 2011 and later has a CANbus system, atleast to that degree that the motorcycle doesn't start when tampered with the speedo and the same for 3 cylinder engines from 2007 and beyond. For Triumph engines that is. Japanese engines probably had it earlier, but as I said, I cannot swear on the facts.
But the gentleman from Motogadget is looking in on this for me and wether I need the CANbus "fooling" system or not.
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ALL tbirds are a canbus system mine is a 09 and it is canbus |
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Do you know where I could find the facts for that? Not that I mistrust you more that I have something to show the technichans at Motogadget for my project. |
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Apparently as I placed a call to our local authorized Triumph workshop here in Gothenburg. He says the Triumph Thunderbird 2010 does not have a CANbus system, it has a regular electrical system.
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| VABird | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 28/09/2014 | | Posts | : | 1,373 | | Location | : | BEDFORD, Virginia, United States |
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| | Posted : 18 Jan 2018 - 21:52 Post title : Re: 3rd party speedometer (Re: sandrower) | | | This on page 1.18 of the service manual.
Note the last sentence.
CAN (Controller Area Networking)
CAN (sometimes called CANbus) is a protocol for data communication between Electronic Control Modules (ECMs). Each ECM on the network is connected by a
single pair of twisted wires (or bus) which are used for the transmission of vehicle sensor data. By using CAN, the overall number of system sensors, and the amount of cabling required to allow ECMs to communicate with each other is greatly reduced. This saves cost, weight and space, and makes the system more reliable, as the physical number of wires and connections is reduced.
Extract from the circuit diagram showing CAN connection between ECMs CAN works by each ECM sending out 'packets' of information (such as engine speed or fuel consumption information) on to the network bus (note that the network must be free of data before any ECM is allowed to transmit>. This data is given a priority according to its importance (for example 'engine speed' may have a higher priority than 'low fuel level'), so that even if two ECMs send data at the same time, high priority information is always sent first. Lower priority data is then resent after the high priority data has been received by all ECMs on the network.
The receiving ECM confirms the data has been received correctly and that the data is valid, and this information is then used by the ECM as necessary. Specific data not required by an ECM will still be received and acknowledged as correct but then disregarded (for example if an ECM does not require 'clutch switch position' information, this data packet would be ignored). This allows for a very high speed system of communication, which is also very reliable. Should one ECM fail or transmit corrupted or otherwise incorrect messages, none of the other ECMs on the network will be affected, and after a certain time that ECM will be prevented from transmitting further messages until the fault is rectified. This stops the ECM from clogging the network with incorrect data and preventing other messages from getting through. The fault would then be reported by a DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code).
Triumph currently use CAN for communication between the engine ECM and the instruments.
| The ride may be fun, but in the Great Scheme of things, it really is about the destination! John 3:16
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| mag10 | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 05/02/2010 | | Posts | : | 485 | | Location | : | Wisconsin, United States |
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| | Posted : 19 Jan 2018 - 14:09 Post title : Re: 3rd party speedometer (Re: VABird) | | | way down at the end of this thread, member Redmarble has an alternative speedometer setup that looks pretty good but does require some electrical wizardry.
Link
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