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|  | Topic : pretty disgusted with this belt drive |  |
| | | SeanS | | Jupiter |  |  | | Reg. Date | : | 17/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 1,179 | | Location | : | Matlock, Derbyshire UK, United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 22 Sep 2010 - 19:56 Post title : Re: pretty disgusted with this belt drive (Re: daz) | | |
daz wrote:
I will. probably saturday after next i'll be taking it in for the 12k. I will also ask mickey about it when i'm there and see what he knows because if anyone would short of the designers it would be him. I'm not looking forward to this service by the way....it's a 40 or 50 mile drive and i have no what back and no way to get back the next weekend to pick it up aside from the train. And it's about 4-5 miles from there to the train station and same at home. I am NOT looking forward to that ! I was going to rent a car but there aren't even any rental places closer than the train station that i could find.  |
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Many years back when the Tiger was my pride and joy (still is but needs TLC) The service interval was 3000 miles. I was averaging 20kmiles/year so as a result was having service approx every 6 weeks and two set of tyres, chain & sprockets every year. It cost me a fortune, however two wheels was my life and whilst I don't do so many miles/year now, still hate driving a car. Anyway my dealer used to lend me a demonstrator every time in for a service and since I worked away, they let me have it until the following weekend.
That service level was excellent, I bought 2 other triumphs from them Speed3 and T595 Daytona, each time the bike sold at 2% above dealer price mind you they made their money out of my service record. Unfortunately they sold up and the new owners declared bankrupt in 2 years so had to find new dealer. Hate to think how much servicing has cost me over past 20 years but do know I've covered over 300k miles.
Dealer service varies, some are exceptional, some poor but hopefully most are excellent.
Hope you get a loan bike for the week.
Regards
| If only I had a bigger garage
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| | | daz | | Zeus | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,705 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 22 Sep 2010 - 20:07 Post title : Re: pretty disgusted with this belt drive (Re: SeanS) | | | yeah that would be nice but they don;t do that here for some reason. I already asked both mickey and my dealer and neither do. Mickey said he does it only for people he knows well, probably friends and long time customers.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | EnGage | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 14/07/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,155 | | Location | : | Grand Rapids, MI, United States |
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| | Posted : 22 Sep 2010 - 20:30 Post title : Re: pretty disgusted with this belt drive (Re: daz) | | | daz wrote:
yeah that would be nice but they don;t do that here for some reason. I already asked both mickey and my dealer and neither do. Mickey said he does it only for people he knows well, probably friends and long time customers. |
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That sucks. Anytime my dealer needs my bike over night they send me home on another bike, which I like as it allows me to experience other rides. They know Triumph dealers are few, so they try to make it easy on folks so they can draw them in from all over. This seems like such an obvious thing to do - makes one wonder what some of these dealership owners are thinking
You could rent at trailer (of course you would need a hitch).
| | Post edited by EnGage on 22 Sep 2010 - 20:31 |
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,705 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 22 Sep 2010 - 21:25 Post title : Re: pretty disgusted with this belt drive (Re: EnGage) | | | for some reason this loaner bike thing seems to be the norm everywhere but here in so cal. Maybe there is some insurance reason in this state, who knows.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | mat1600 | | Thunderbird | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 06/03/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,596 | | Location | : | Bridlington, Democratic Independant State of Yorkshire, United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 22 Sep 2010 - 21:29 Post title : Re: pretty disgusted with this belt drive (Re: daz) | | | Strange . You would think they could something for you. I got a TBA, nice but glad to get the bird back.
| My first natural instinct is to breathe. My second is to evade tax's.
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| | | davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 23 Sep 2010 - 00:47 Post title : Re: pretty disgusted with this belt drive (Re: mat1600) | | | OK!! I covered 250 miles today on highways, twisty back roads,regular back roads,and at slow and fast speeds.In other words,I tried to cover all the bases.I stopped at least a half dozen times,specifically,to check the position of the belt and take measurements with a feeler gauge to see how much clearance I actually had at any given time between the edge of the belt and the inner sides of the cog,no matter which side the belt was riding on.The belt was back and forth all day long and even dead center on a couple occasions.In fact,because of the way I pulled into my garage late this afternoon,she's dead center right now.Anyways,the tightest clearance I got was .005 inches which is NOT gonna do any damage to the belt.On every check,I also looked at both edges of the belt for any indication or tell tale signs of contact and there was none.
So again I would suggest you reset the alignment marks as close to even as possible,torque the axle nut,and take it out for a fairly long ride.Stop every know and then to see if either side of the belt is showing any signs of contact with that pulley regardless of where the belt is riding at the time.
I saw the pics you posted of the belt with damaged sides on it.But, was that damage done before, or after you attempted to true the belt. Dave!!!
| | Post edited by davetac1 on 23 Sep 2010 - 01:01 |
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,705 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 23 Sep 2010 - 01:39 Post title : Re: pretty disgusted with this belt drive (Re: davetac1) | | | I'm telling you dave, i HAVE run the bike with the marks aligned. In fact, you ask when the damage was done...it was done with the marks aligned ! Thats what i've been saying for i don't know how long ! If the marks are the same on both sides as they are supposed to be according to the manual to get the rear wheel aligned, mine rides HARD right. Mine never ever sways from one side or the other unless i adjust it 3 or 4 times till i get the pulley and belt into the best possible alignment. then the alignment marks are off considerably from each other, even more so then they are now. You will find soon enough that yours will not vary like it is right now again after it finally settles to one side or after you have to put a tire on. You just happened upon that fine line, but to do so again you will likely have to adjust it a number if times till you get it right. But you see, for me thats not important because mine does NOT do that till the wheel is well out of alignment. The point here is, i'm glad yours is like that, but mine isn't. Thats what we're trying to figure out here. Why are some like that and others not? To clarify even more, if everyone here aligned thier marks, some would ride left, some right, and some, tho i'd bet very few would ride "center averaged" like yours.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | SeanS | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 17/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 1,179 | | Location | : | Matlock, Derbyshire UK, United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 23 Sep 2010 - 04:05 Post title : Re: pretty disgusted with this belt drive (Re: davetac1) | | |
davetac1 wrote:
So again I would suggest you reset the alignment marks as close to even as possible,torque the axle nut,and take it out for a fairly long ride.Stop every know and then to see if either side of the belt is showing any signs of contact with that pulley regardless of where the belt is riding at the time.
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Hi Dave. As with Daz I eperience excesive wear,virtually 1/4" in 2000 miles. No matter what was tried, aligning to marks, missalignment by up to 3/16", using the alignment tool, the wear continued. the belt remaining always on the outer edge.
I didn, get a reason as to why it was occuring just a replacement under warrenty. Hopefully now it will run true.. Daz's obviously has same fault as aresult the alignment won't happen without replacement.
Regards
Sean
| If only I had a bigger garage
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| | | davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 23 Sep 2010 - 05:19 Post title : Re: pretty disgusted with this belt drive (Re: SeanS) | | | OK! I believe you daz.Assuming that your machine has never been down,involved in an accident, bought new,and had this problem more than likely,from the beginning,I believe that you have a swing arm alignment problem.I was just out in my shop studying my shop manual trying to figure out just what's goin on with your machine.On page 14.6,it shows a tool [frame adjuster tool #3884104,the key words being frame adjuster] used to turn the frame adjuster sleeve located on the right side[belt drive side]where the swing arm attaches to the machine's main frame.It doesn't show just exactly what the sleeve looks like or if it's in the swing arm or the frame itself ,or how it adjusts whatever it's supposed to adjust,but it does give a procedure to follow whenever the swing arm needs to be removed for repair and or belt replacement.Since your belt is damaged from obvious swing arm misalignment,more then likely from the factory,Triumph or the dealer,should replace it and fix the alignment problem,under warantee.This IS a SAFETY RELATED item where you and or someone else could be seriously injured.So bring it back to them or call them and explain the problem as I just explained it to you.If you get no results,try another dealer.If again you get no results,call Triumph direct and explain it to them as I just explained it to you and see what they say.
Anyways,that's my opinion,FWIW.If you lived locally around here,you could bring it over and we could solve the problem together.But you don't.Eventually,I'll have to replace my belt meaning that I'll have to buy that tool and drop the swing arm in order to replace it.But until I do one,I'm afraid I can't be of too much assistance with the procedure.Keep us posted. Dave!!!
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,705 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 23 Sep 2010 - 05:26 Post title : Re: pretty disgusted with this belt drive (Re: davetac1) | | | If you look back a few posts i mentioned the frame adjusters on the engine and swingarm as one possibility for why some of them work as they should and some don't. Any time you have something like that it's just another thing to be done wrong by incompetent service techs and factory workers, and as i've said a million times that kind of thing is rampant.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 23 Sep 2010 - 06:01 Post title : Re: pretty disgusted with this belt drive (Re: daz) | | | AS I said,until I actually do one of these jobs,which I suspect will be my own,I can't really be of too much assistance.But this problem is WRONG, it's SAFETY RELATED,and it NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.PERIOD!! So call em.
I had balls with Yamaha about my formerly owned RSV, bought new in 99,regarding a couple issues which we went round and round with.But after hooking up with the Venturer's Motorcycle Club,which I am still a member of and part of their TAC [technical advisory committee]and was formed for the same reasons that this club was formed, only with T Birds,I discovered that other Venture owners had the same problems I had.After buying my T bird and coming on board here,I have discovered that a few of the T Bird owners are also having balls with Triumphs dealers and or Triumph itself.So by putting our heads together to figure out these problems and then pissin all over Triumph,like we did on Yamaha,these problems will get resolved and that's what counts. What's your life worth? Follow me??? CALL EM!!! Dave!!!
| | Post edited by davetac1 on 23 Sep 2010 - 06:28 |
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 23 Sep 2010 - 13:53 Post title : Re: pretty disgusted with this belt drive (Re: davetac1) | | | davetac1 wrote:
It doesn't show just exactly what the sleeve looks like or if it's in the swing arm or the frame itself ,or how it adjusts whatever it's supposed to adjust, but it does give a procedure to follow whenever the swing arm needs to be removed for repair and or belt replacement.! |
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You are referring to the overtight belt proceedure? Tighten all frame torques and use the belt to final trim the belt pulleys?
I wish I knew how much overtight they mean. When do you know you've overcome the frame torques and are now aligned?
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| | | davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 23 Sep 2010 - 17:28 Post title : Re: pretty disgusted with this belt drive (Re: DizzE) | | | Negative.I'm not talking about belt adjustment.I'm talkin about getting the swing arm straight so the rear wheel is running true and not side winding.Once that swing arm is straight,the belt alignment should fall into place.
As for tension,I think I explained about leaving a little extra play in it. After being advised by a couple of friends who have worked on a number of belt drive machines, [this is my first belt drive machine] instead of the shop manual's recommended .20-.27 inches of belt free play, when COLD, at its TIGHTEST POINT,and when on the SIDE STAND,they recommended I run .30-.40 inches of free play at the tightest point of the belt,when cold, and while it's setting on the side stand.In other words,the rear wheel has the weight of the machine on it.Everything works just fine,the belts walks just like it's supposed to, and there are no belt noises.
Now case in point.Yesterday,when I covered those 250 miles,I happened to go thru a construction zone where new hot top was being laid.One lane was open for travel,while at the same time,they were laying hot top down on the other lane.I forgot to mention this yesterday.But after going thru that construction zone,I suddenly developed a vibration which felt like it was coming from the drive line.
To make a long story short,this morning,I pulled the upper belt guard off so I could get a better look at the rear cog for inspection,and the chrome cover that goes over the water overflow bottle and the forward drive cog.Now what do ya think I found?? Inside that forward chrome cover,there was a pile of sand and hot top from that construction site I passed thru.PLUS, in that drive cog,was a piece of hot top approximately 1/4 inch across X 1/8 inch thick,WEDGED, right smack dab in the center of it.I had to use a small punch and hammer to break it free.As luck had it,there was no damage to the cog or the belt,other then a little mark in the middle of it,plus I never lost my belt's adjustment.Now had I NOT had that extra play in that belt,instead of posting this,I'd be out looking for either a new belt ,a new drive cog,or both. And BTW,the vibration is now gone.I road tested it right after I put everything back together.It's like drivin a brandy new machine all over again.So, I AM a happy camper again.lol
So a word to the wise.Leave a little extra play in that belt adjustment.I'm sure glad that I did.lol Dave!!!
| | Post edited by davetac1 on 23 Sep 2010 - 17:33 |
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| | | Jamie | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 22/08/2010 | | Posts | : | 65 | | Location | : | Geneva, Switzerland |
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| | Posted : 23 Sep 2010 - 18:58 Post title : Re: pretty disgusted with this belt drive (Re: davetac1) | | | davetac1 wrote:
To make a long story short |
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You certainly don't have to  .
Jamie
| | Post edited by Jamie on 23 Sep 2010 - 19:03 |
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| | | EnGage | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 14/07/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,155 | | Location | : | Grand Rapids, MI, United States |
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| | Posted : 23 Sep 2010 - 20:04 Post title : Re: pretty disgusted with this belt drive (Re: davetac1) | | |
davetac1 wrote:
Negative.I'm not talking about belt adjustment.I'm talkin about getting the swing arm straight so the rear wheel is running true and not side winding.Once that swing arm is straight,the belt alignment should fall into place. ...
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Of course, that assumes the engine itself is aligned.
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| | | davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 23 Sep 2010 - 22:08 Post title : Re: pretty disgusted with this belt drive (Re: EnGage) | | | I didn't see anything in the shop manual about engine alignment.I suspect that,if the engine was out of alignment,then the frame itself would be sprung or bent.That's why I asked daz if his machine had been down or involved in an accident.The alignment sleeve used to get the swing arm straight is the only thing I can see that would cause his problem.But again,I've never owned a Triumph either, so I'm learning too.But we'll learn together.That's what sites like this are for,to share problems and help one another rectify em.Dave!!!
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 23 Sep 2010 - 23:33 Post title : Re: pretty disgusted with this belt drive (Re: davetac1) | | | Yes, I remember now, there is a little paragrah about overtightening the belt after
engine replacemet and, one would assume, initial installation.
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,705 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 23 Sep 2010 - 23:45 Post title : Re: pretty disgusted with this belt drive (Re: DizzE) | | | Thats right. I remember seeing that but not getting exactly what they meant. But it does occur to me it could indeed have to do with this. It's been like this since day one, so i'm thinking the factory workers may not be accurately installing the arms.
Today after work i put the marks back to the correct alignment just to see how the bike felt. Sure enough it was obviously more "right" feeling going down the road. I really hope they do a warranty repair on this thing. But it's been a lousy summer with more fall like temps here, and just now the forcast has shown we are in for big time heat (my fav riding weather) for the full forcast. So theres a chance we are having out summer weather late, and i don't want to miss it !!! I wait all year for this weather and hardly got any. So i'm holding off on taking her in till the weather turns. I rally want to get the 12k service done and hopefully get the belt sitch straightened out, or at least find out whether they will. But it will be in the shop for at least a week and possibly 2 or 3 if the belt issue is going to be warrantied. So it will have to wait. But one way or another i need the wheel lined up because after riding it out of alignment for a few weeks, going back to correct alignment just feels so much better even tho the belt is gain grinding away on the outer flange.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 24 Sep 2010 - 01:36 Post title : Re: pretty disgusted with this belt drive (Re: daz) | | | Being in the business for the last 100 years,lol ,you'd be surprised at the factory **** ups and the sh** we had to go thru to correct the problems caused by that assembly line.And that applies to EVERYTHING,cars,trucks,motorcycles,chain saws,boats,you name it.I think it's called "PRODUCTION".That means,hurry up and never mind the quality of the product. lol Dave!!!
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