|  | Topic : Full brake bleed help |  |
| | | DrMooman | | Set |  | | Reg. Date | : | 09/08/2016 | | Posts | : | 73 | | Location | : | Wales, Wales, United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 27 Sep 2016 - 20:49 Post title : Full brake bleed help | | | To all the people wise and knowledgeable about bleeding ABS brakes on the Thunderbird. I'd like some help. As some of you know I'm working on developing very comprehensive guides on how to do all the service items on the bike. I know someone has already put up a guide on bleeding the brakes (Link but I would like to develop a more comprehensive one that fully covers all the recommended steps including the ABS bleed. It seems from peoples experience that they are doing a normal brake bleed and then driving the bike engaging the ABS to release the fluid and then changing the fluid every year to keep on top of it. This may be enough and is sensible, but why not go the whole hog and properly replace it all as initially intended.
So from what I read in the service manual the procedure in broad strokes is thus:
1) Leave the brake hose connected and remove the caliper
2) Stick something in between the pads and bleed the brake
3) Reconnect the caliper to the bike
4) Bleed the brake again
Then For ABS
5) Connect the software- dealer tool/Triumph software
6) Bleed the ABS solenoid
Repeat the brake bleed as per instruction without ABS
7) Leave the brake hose connected and remove the caliper
8) Stick something in between the pads and bleed the brake
9) Reconnect the caliper to the bike
10) Bleed the brake again
That is 5 brake bleed procedures for one caliper to follow the instructions as outlined in the service manual to the T. That seems a bit ludicrous to me and complete over kill or am I just not reading it right?
Also, why bleed the brakes 5x (10x in total for the two) in that fashion when if you are being that thorough, you will probably do a teardown and rebuild of the calipers themselves and that procedure you need to disconnect the brake hose and the fluid will drain from there.
Questions
1) Why when doing just a brake bleed do you bleed it with the caliper off the bike and then on the bike? Isn't once enough?
2) How much brake fluid is actually in the ABS? Is it that necessary to flush it out in it's entirety- I doubt that dealers do a total of 10 brake bleeds on the front brakes.
3) Does any one have experience of both Dealer Tool and the Triumph software? I have Dealer Tool but it would be nice to know how much dealer tool differs from the Triumph ABS bleed.
4) How do you tell what is the old brake fluid? Say for example you bought a second hand bike and the previous owner never changed the ABS brake fluid but changed the rest and didn't engage the ABS when driving. If you do a normal brake bleed and then do the ABS brake bleed and then do the normal brake bleed again- how will you tell when the old brake fluid from the ABS solenoid is out? Like my point below- to me it seems more sensible to completely drain the system of all brake fluid, then you know it is out.
What are other people's thoughts on this....
1) Is there any point in just doing a fluid change in the sequence described above? If you (or me in this case) are going to be that anal and pedantic about getting it perfect- wouldn't it be more sensible just to drain the fluid, do a tear down of the caliper and reassemble the lot every two years. Then you can drive off knowing the pistons, seals, pads and fluid are spot on. To me that seems more sensible- so for my DIY Thunderbird guide I'm thinking of writing that version up, a complete front tear down and recommend it every two years rather than two guides, one for fluid and one for caliper teardown. What do other people think
Any useful advice would be appreciated. There is no need to point out I am being pedantic, I recognize that  . But if I'm going to do something in life I like to get it spot on when I can. Particularly where my life is concerned and brakes fall under that category. Second to that is my love for Rosetta (The Bike), she won't accept anything less.
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| | | daz | | Zeus | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,705 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 28 Sep 2016 - 01:14 Post title : Re: Full brake bleed help (Re: DrMooman) | | | Don't know about ABS, but with regular brakes theres just one way to do it far as i'm concerned....get a set of speed bleeders ! I will NEVER bleed another brake system w/o them. You can install them without even draining the system. Unscrew the olde bleed bolt with a rag around it to catch the tiny bit of fluid that escapes while you screw the new speed bleeder in. Done ! Now when u wanna bleed em it's this simple....loosen the bleeder and pump the brake lever/pedal non stop till the fluid in the master is getting close to the bottom then fill it up. None of the pump pump pump, hold release the bleeder, tighten bleeder, pump pump etc etc etc. About $25 for 3 of them for the tbird. Why in gods name anyone would not get them is beyond me. Makes bleeding a 5 minute one man job. And to do a fluid change just pump and fill till all the old fluid is out. No need to disassemble the damn system. As for ABS they should make that more complicated procedure much simpler too.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | DrMooman | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 09/08/2016 | | Posts | : | 73 | | Location | : | Wales, Wales, United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 28 Sep 2016 - 18:44 Post title : Re: Full brake bleed help (Re: daz) | | | Which sizes do you use for front and back is it the 8mmx1.25 as indicated in this link Link
and is the back one the same?
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| | | PapaSmurfMC | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 03/10/2013 | | Posts | : | 871 | | Location | : | Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States |
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| | Posted : 29 Sep 2016 - 04:22 Post title : Re: Full brake bleed help (Re: DrMooman) | | | Check out DealerTool's procedure: ![]()
| 2013 Blue Marble Haze Thunderbird 1600 ABS
2009 Black Bonneville A1 ("Mag")
Buncha farkles
| | Post edited by PapaSmurfMC on 29 Sep 2016 - 04:22 |
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| | | MotorMac | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 29/08/2010 | | Posts | : | 1,840 | | Location | : | Nor Cal, United States |
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| | Posted : 29 Sep 2016 - 11:54 Post title : Re: Full brake bleed help (Re: DrMooman) | | | Yes, all 3 are same bleeders (non-ABS 1st year model).
You're gonna pay royalties to site admin when you publish, right?
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,705 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 30 Sep 2016 - 04:18 Post title : Re: Full brake bleed help (Re: DrMooman) | | |
DrMooman wrote:
Which sizes do you use for front and back is it the 8mmx1.25 as indicated in this link Link
and is the back one the same? |
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Yeah, but i bought the original speed bleeder brand.........Speed Bleeder SB8125L M8 x 1.25. They were something like $26 shipped on ebay.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | DrMooman | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 09/08/2016 | | Posts | : | 73 | | Location | : | Wales, Wales, United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 01 Oct 2016 - 20:18 Post title : Re: Full brake bleed help (Re: daz) | | | Thanks, i've ordered 3 and will write up the guide for install- there are some good you tube videos on it too.
It looks like it will make it easier but i'm still wondering- why does the service manual say to bleed the brakes with the calliper removed and then again with the calliper on the bike.
I just can't see a reason
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,705 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 01 Oct 2016 - 21:33 Post title : Re: Full brake bleed help (Re: DrMooman) | | | Who knows. Maybe editors that aren't very tech savvy.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | DrMooman | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 09/08/2016 | | Posts | : | 73 | | Location | : | Wales, Wales, United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 19 Oct 2016 - 20:13 Post title : Re: Full brake bleed help (Re: DrMooman) | | | I've uploaded what i've done with the exception of the calliper over-hall and the disc inspection/replacement. But i've had success and these procedures work a treat
Link
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