|  | Topic : question to catless guys |  |
| | | daz | | Zeus |  |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 06 Jun 2010 - 16:52 Post title : question to catless guys | | | Can you see what obstructs the path between the inlet and outlet of the cat? that is, in the straightest path from in to out, what is in the way?
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 24 Sep 2010 - 14:31 Post title : Re: question to catless guys (Re: daz) | | | I don't know just exactly what Triumph uses in their cats,but in the automotive industry,either a honey comb type filter or platinum pellets are used. That's what I've seen inside in the car and truck cats that I've had open.So I suspect Triumph probably uses something similar. Dave!!!
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 24 Sep 2010 - 15:31 Post title : Re: question to catless guys (Re: davetac1) | | |
davetac1 wrote:
I don't know just exactly what Triumph uses in their cats,but in the automotive industry,either a honey comb type filter or platinum pellets are used. That's what I've seen inside in the car and truck cats that I've had open.So I suspect Triumph probably uses something similar. Dave!!! |
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dave, there's a thread here somewhere, a guy cut his cat apart. It has about 2-3 pounds of "loose material." There's a crossover
and a few baffles.
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| | | fab | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 2,515 | | Location | : | wyong, nsw, Australia |
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| | Posted : 25 Sep 2010 - 07:32 Post title : Re: question to catless guys (Re: DizzE) | | | when i took my cat apart this is what i found.
the cat inlet from the headers go into the cat on each side about 4 inches into the middle of the cat
they stop with a gap of 3 inches apart from each other,in the ends of these pipes there is the cat material
in each tube this is made from stainless mesh and is about 3inch long
we could not get it out without using an oxy and heated the material up and blew it out.
now there is nothing in the centre of the cat,so the exhaust gases just flow from the inlet tubes into the middle of the cat and flow out the rear cat muffler inlets.
hope this answers you question.
BTW. I think the bike has a deeper sound at idle and a deeper sound when accelerating ,but i will say that it does have a deeper
pop to it. which i don't mind.I do think it pulls harder all the way to 5000rpm and is smoother.
my bike has
1600,short tors,performance filter,seat duct removed and air cleaner lip removed,and 1600 tors
i have done the 12 minute tune and think it runs better when i did this.
plugs look good. I will try the 1700 tune when i get a chance so i can see the difference.
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Remember, soft cocks hang around all life long, hard ones come and go
ahh f**k im deep
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 25 Sep 2010 - 14:20 Post title : Re: question to catless guys (Re: fab) | | | Fab....so you are running the regular tors tune with performance filter duct removed, lip removed and shorties? How long have you been running like this? I ask because i have the same setup except the seat duct is on, and i tried it without the duct recently and loved it. But i have a fueling device on the way and i have been afraid to leave the duct off for fear i'd be running much too lean. Have you considered this and how long have you been running this way? I'd like to remove the duct again today and do a bit of riding and maybe leave it like that for a week until the device arrives and i can richen the mix to compensate. (i also plan to remove the lip when i get the device) But i can't help but think that would make the bike run much too lean which can damage outlet valves. Thoughts?
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
| | Post edited by daz on 25 Sep 2010 - 14:22 |
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| | | fab | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 2,515 | | Location | : | wyong, nsw, Australia |
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| | Posted : 25 Sep 2010 - 21:29 Post title : Re: question to catless guys (Re: daz) | | | I have tried it three times each way(standard air filter setup,seat duct with rubber ring on )
then modded (performance filter,seat duct off and rubber ring removed)
i have run the bike at idle then pulled plugs
run bike up to 2000rpm pulled plugs
took bike for a ride going right through the rev range pulled plugs
I can see no difference in plug colour in any test i have done (i have a been racing bikes ,go karts and r/c boats for many years and this is how i tuned all of my motors, whether they are running standard petrol ,methanol,nitro.
but i will be very keen to get to a dyno or another tunable program to be 100% positive of my findings.
I have made a modded air cleaner but will not use it as it did bog the bike down low on the tune i have on the bike.
I haven't talked about this setup because i didn't want anyone doing it until it has been run on my bike and on a dyno
to confirm my findings.
p.s daz i will not destroy the air cleaner lip i want to keep it standard till warranty runs out, but as i said here i have made a custom air cleaner setup that i think will be great once we have a tuning solution or i can get to a dyno.
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Remember, soft cocks hang around all life long, hard ones come and go
ahh f**k im deep
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 25 Sep 2010 - 21:36 Post title : Re: question to catless guys (Re: fab) | | | fab wrote: my bike has
1600,short tors,performance filter,seat duct removed and air cleaner lip removed. |
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fab wrote:
p.s daz i will not destroy the air cleaner lip i want to keep it standard till warranty runs out, but as i said here i have made a custom air cleaner setup that i think will be great once we have a tuning solution or i can get to a dyno. |
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These two quotes seem to conflict. Can you explain what you mean exactly? If you didn't cut it off, how can the first statement be? Is it somehow removable? Also, as you talking about that bellmouth looking lip that curves down into the filter, or that foam rim that presses up against the seat duct? (that part, the foam thing is already off mine)
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
| | Post edited by daz on 25 Sep 2010 - 21:37 |
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| | | fab | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 2,515 | | Location | : | wyong, nsw, Australia |
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| | Posted : 25 Sep 2010 - 21:48 Post title : Re: question to catless guys (Re: daz) | | | sorry daz, i have only taken off the rubber ring ,but have made a complete new air filter setup but i will not run it until i get it dyno.
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Remember, soft cocks hang around all life long, hard ones come and go
ahh f**k im deep
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| | | daz | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 7,709 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 25 Sep 2010 - 21:56 Post title : Re: question to catless guys (Re: fab) | | | Ah, ok. Well, you may want to consider the rubber "belmouth" thingy too. i have a feeling that thing is the bottleneck in the entire system and no matter what else you do it will never allow the airflow to go past a certain degree.
| 2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link
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| | | DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 26 Sep 2010 - 15:09 Post title : Re: question to catless guys (Re: daz) | | |
daz wrote:
Ah, ok. Well, you may want to consider the rubber "belmouth" thingy too. i have a feeling that thing is the bottleneck in the entire system and no matter what else you do it will never allow the airflow to go past a certain degree. |
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I did the calculation in the other forum, but I remember the gain was huge...70%+ gain if you take off the 'thingy.'
That's an area of ellipse calc. comparing the bell mouth to the filter.
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| | | MickeyBoy | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 18/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 553 | | Location | : | WiNe CoUnTrY TeMeCuLa, Socialist State of Kalifornia, United States |
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| | Posted : 28 Sep 2010 - 04:09 Post title : Re: question to catless guys (Re: daz) | | | I need to ask.... why spend the time to gut the cat when you can eliminate it with a good set of pipes? 
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| | | fab | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 2,515 | | Location | : | wyong, nsw, Australia |
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| | Posted : 28 Sep 2010 - 10:45 Post title : Re: question to catless guys (Re: MickeyBoy) | | |
MickeyBoy wrote:
I need to ask.... why spend the time to gut the cat when you can eliminate it with a good set of pipes? |
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For EPA laws, and for some back pressure.plus here in Australia they are getting tougher on noise and pollution tests on vehicles
plus it still looks original if you get pulled over by the boys in blue.
and the best point it sounds deeper in exhaust tone
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Remember, soft cocks hang around all life long, hard ones come and go
ahh f**k im deep
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| | | zolti | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 23/03/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,127 | | Location | : | newcastle , United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 28 Sep 2010 - 11:35 Post title : Re: question to catless guys (Re: fab) | | | the deeper tone might come from the empty cat acting like a resonance box
could experiment with different size empty cat box type replacements to see if the tone can be hightened or lowered 
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| | | MickeyBoy | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 18/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 553 | | Location | : | WiNe CoUnTrY TeMeCuLa, Socialist State of Kalifornia, United States |
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| | Posted : 28 Sep 2010 - 23:29 Post title : Re: question to catless guys (Re: fab) | | |
fab wrote:
MickeyBoy wrote:
I need to ask.... why spend the time to gut the cat when you can eliminate it with a good set of pipes? |
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For EPA laws, and for some back pressure.plus here in Australia they are getting tougher on noise and pollution tests on vehicles
plus it still looks original if you get pulled over by the boys in blue.
and the best point it sounds deeper in exhaust tone |
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Luckily we still don't smog motorcycles. My cat and stock pipes are in a box, the BC Hog Slayers are on the bike.
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